Q&A: Fostering good sportsmanship

Is there a non-gender-stereotyped word for "sportsmanship"? Kathleen, mother of a first-grader, asks:

"Does anyone know how to foster good sportsmanship? I love playing games but I really really really do not like the temper tantrum that comes when a certain boy loses. And I've tried, but I really cannot figure out how to lose at Mankala."

Ha! That last line really made me laugh. And then I looked up Mankala. And then I remembered why I don't like playing games with kids that age.

FWIW, I don't think it's unusual that a certain boy gets very upset at losing. The only thing that's seemed to help my boys (the older when he was that age, and the younger now) was playing so many games that losing and winning all blended together, and they got that no one game was that high stakes.

Since it's hard for you to lose at that one game, maybe rotating in other games would help. Unless, of course, your child wants to play only that one game. Which wouldn't surprise me. Kids can be tough.

You could also rotate to games that have no clear winner (if your child will accept other games). That could reduce the tantrum factor. Of course, then your child isn't going to get the practice of being the winner sometimes and the loser other times. And learning to lose IS a life skill. Just not one that that are good at yet at this age. (Although who am I kidding? I'm not particularly good at it at age 38, either, even though it seems to keep happening again and again.)

So, yeah. I don't reallly know. I think it's just repetition.

Does anyone else have anything more solid on being a good loser? And also being a good winner, which kids this age often have problems with, too?

54 thoughts on “Q&A: Fostering good sportsmanship”

  1. Other games are a good idea. So are games where even the loser “scores” some points off the winner – Boggle is great for this, if he’s old enough to spell. It feels good to have found a word that no one else found, even if you only managed one word.

  2. This made me laugh, but only because I’m not there yet! I’m not looking forward to this phase! From everything I’ve witnessed and experienced in parenthood so far, consistency/expectations/boundaries are (almost) everything. I agree with Moxie; like any skill, it’s something that will take a lot of repetition. Set behavioral expectations with clear consequences, and then do the hard work of following through. Think of all the hurdles you have already overcome to get a functioning human this far in life, and be encouraged that you can do this!

  3. I have two ideas!One, the book Playful Parenting is WONDERFUL and addresses this issue quite a bit. I can’t remember the whole of his advice, but it’s totally counter intuitive (at least to me) and the book is well worth reading. One of the best out there.
    I do remember that he does suggest letting them win, and then making a big deal about how sad YOU are at losing (crying, stomping, whatever, sort of geared towards what they do, but not in a making-fun-of type of way).
    There is a lot more to it, but the whole book is amazing and unlike any other parenting book out there!
    He argues, and I think it actually makes sense, that having the experience of winning over and over at home helps the child build up the feeling of being strong so they are more able to not do as well in the real world. So, when they play with their friends, they are more able to lose.
    Second, another idea to make the game more fair (and make it more likely for him to win) is by giving yourself a handicap. Perhaps for Mancala he starts with some stones already in his end cup so that you are at a disadvantage? We do this with lots of games (with Uno our child starts with fewer cards, with checkers you could have fewer pieces, maybe even only 5!), you get the idea!
    I do think for some people this second idea rubs them the wrong way, but I think 1) it really isn’t fair for adults to play against kids! Of course we’ll win more! And, second, then you really have to try to win, which makes it more fun for you. Perhaps you start in Mancala and make it to where he starts with so many that there is very little chance you could win, then, over time, generally they want more of a challenge. Though, sometimes they might just need that sense of winning.
    I know in the book sometimes the author asks the kids he works with, do you want me to go hard or easy on you? It’s surprising what they’ll say sometimes!

  4. Ohhhhhh. Oh my. We have this issue A LOT A LOT A LOT.My 7 year old has refused to play games for about 2 years unless she’s guaranteed to win. Sometimes we can coax her into a 4-way game of Taki (Israeli UNO, sort of), but she’d much rather read a book or 20.
    The 5 year old is very, very good at games. Like when you play Mancala (or Othello! I suck at Othello!) with him you must pay attention or he will wipe the floor with you. But if you ARE paying attention he often loses because he’s 5 and he uses the same strategy over and over (Mancala, Rummy) or makes moves in Othello based on how many pieces he can flip. Strategy is not his thing. Yet.
    Anyway, he is such a wild card when he loses. Sometimes when he loses he is fine. Sometimes he has an enormous fit. One time he tossed Monopoly Jr pieces all over the room–Monopoly Jr, it has to be said, it a game that is 100% controlled by the dice, so you CANNOT throw it his way.
    We’ve tried to rotate in other things to do, like puzzles and games that don’t have opposing teams. But ultimately we are hoping he outgrows it…and can be more of a mentsch when he wins too. (He will sometimes sympathetically say, “That’s ok that you lost.” Before he gloats.)

  5. Tough phase. My six year old daughter is still in it, but is getting better. One of our preschool teachers had a helpful suggestion which was to start out the game by reminding everyone that not all the players can win and helping younger players decide what they will say if they lose. Having a script can kind of help them get through an emotional situation. They choose, “Good game,” or “Congratulations.” Whatever. Just so long as they pick something and use it. It didn’t totally end the tantrums for us, but it helped. We also had a strict rule which was that a tantrum meant the game got put away for the rest of the day. Period. If you want a second chance at winning you have to behave yourself.

  6. For this, I love the Busytown game (available on amazon…I get no kickbacks but if you search through AskMoxie, I think she makes a referral fee). Everyone either wins or everyone loses (plus it’s a cute and fun game). All the players are playing against the pigs together. If you lose, you can lose together and model good losing (like, “Oh, I’m sad we lost, but maybe we’ll beat those pigs next time. Want to play again?”). And if you win, you can model good winning behavior too.

  7. We just keep repeating, it doesn’t matter if you win or lose, the fun part is playing!” And sometimes she says it too. It sort of works.

  8. My version of natural consequences around this issue is thus: If you throw a fit when you lose, I don’t play next time. My kids love board/card games and they’re pretty much a daily occurrence around here. IMO, 6 is old enough remember a consequence like that from one day to the next.We talk about and practice the outcome before the game even starts — “And what will you do if you lose?” “RATS! I wanted to win!” We model this, too, when we lose.
    We also model appropriate winning behavior, like sympathizing when someone has gone all the way though the deck in Sorry! and still not gotten a single piece out of Start.
    Sometimes we play until everyone wins. You can do this easily with many, many games.
    But mostly, at our house, I think it’s the natural consequences and the discussion of what *is* an appropriate response to losing.
    I am totally anti letting-kids-win, mostly just because I really hate doing it. I’m OK with giving them an advantage to make it competitive (we have a Wii driving game we play where the kids insist that Daddy doesn’t take the short cuts, because otherwise he always wins), but I *know* that I will play games with them a lot more and with a lot more joy and enthusiasm if it’s fun for me, too, and it’s not fun for me if I am letting them win. (This might, of course, be simply a character flaw on my part! BUT, I will say that the four of us, me, my husband, our 5 and 7 year olds play a game almost nightly and very, very rarely does anybody throw a fit if he or she is losing.)

  9. We always do a check-in before a game and make sure everyone is “prepared to lose.” We talk openly about that fact that sometimes we have the resilience to be disappointed and sometimes we don’t. It is a good idea to play only when you feel that you have enough resilience to lose gracefully.In our family, we have the concept of starting the day with a set amount of resilience, and that you spend it down during the day as you cope with the stressfulness of daily life. We try to teach the kids o be self-aware of where they are in terms of their resilience level.
    If you are feeling low on resilience, perhaps collaboration or alone time are better choices than competition.

  10. My baby is only four months old, so she wins every game she plays (who is the cutest, who can make mom jump through the most hoops, etc). But I do remember that my brother just 18 months younger than me was a very sore loser as a child. If you were playing a game with him and it became evident he was going to lose, he would suddenly lose all interest in the game and walk away without finishing play. So my mom made a rule that if you quit a game before it was finished that you automatically lost. Though as a child I liked this rule because it actually let me claim my winners satisfaction, as an adult I can see that it also set a precedence for finishing what you started and following through even if things weren’t going your way.

  11. I’m going to agree with Katherine. Even though I have NEVER hated a parenting book the way I hate that one.They address it in how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk: express your frustration when you lose! Ham it up big! They really pay attention to that.
    Mine are almost 6 and almost 4, and we play *lots* of games like Uno and Memory and Candyland, Yahtzee, etc. It was a combination of my modeling handling my frustration at losing, and just playing so often that cut down on the sobbing. Before that, like Sarcasticarrie, we played the Busytown game with the 3yo, and he still loves being a “team”.
    It takes years – the 5yo still exclaims she hates Uno after a particularly close game that she lost, but it’s not the horror show it used to be, for sure.

  12. I’m late to the comments, but I learned from Parent Hacks to give my kids a Loser’s Dance. The person who comes in last gets all our attention while they shake what they got, hop around, spin a bit and generally get a license for silliness. I thought it was too goofy to work, but my 4yo was all over it and still, a couple years later, insists that the loser gets his moment.

  13. we playa “everybody wins.” Whomever wins stops playing fist. Everyone else keeps playing until they complete the goal of the game. My kids are adamant about this. Every time I try to introduce the concept of an actual winner, they won’t play until I agree that we’re all winners. It seems to make them happy, but then again, neither one is in any competitive sports. (they are 4.5 and 7)

  14. such awesome feedback here! I love the idea of the Loser’s Dance!!!I have a super sensitive 5 year old who quits when she fears that she’ll lose. It is a huge challenge in EVERYTHING, not just playing games, but teaching new skills, etc. She gets intimidated and just refuses to try.
    So while I know that it’s partly developmental, I am on top of it in habit training as well. I want her to learn to follow through even when things aren’t fun or easy.
    I also do not go in for the “letting them win” thing. I think kids can smell that a mile away! It feels disrespectful to me. So yeah, I prepare her for the eventuality that she might lose and make sure she’s prepped to deal with it.

  15. I had the opposite problem with my nephew and UNO — he would beat me A LOT and I found myself being a sore loser! Once I realized what I was doing (I mean, I wasn’t throwing a temper tantrum or anything but I was saying things like, “Aw, you stink!” and I meant it mostly jokingly but still…), we made a rule that, when the game ends, we shake hands and say, “Good game” (similar to the scripts mentioned above). We do it in an overly exaggerated way and when I lose, I would make it out like I had to struggle to keep my composure but then once we shook, everything was cool. He also hates losing (family trait?) and I hope that my example helped him too. I plan to do the same with my own kids when they reach game-playing age.

  16. Did I tell you guys I made the then 4-year-old Mouse watch Hillary Clinton’s concession speech in total as an example of how a grownup should act when they lose? We talked about it a LOT for the 4-6 years, and used several of the strategies – we didn’t try all that hard to beat her (though her grandpa had NO MERCY) but we often would and preschool taught her to say “good game” whether she won or lost. I like that – be gracious both ways! Sometimes we’d play again *if* she could calm down, and then she could see if she won that time. But I think ultimately it was just repetition – right now she’s being instructed in Magic The Gathering by an 11-year-old friend and she seems to lose pretty regularly but handle it OK.BTW, a fantastic game that is actually reasonably fun for adults and where the competition isn’t the only point… is Apples To Apples. We’ve been playing that since Mouse was 4 or 5; more recently she’s also really liked Clue and checkers. Clue is really quite a decent game.

  17. Oooh, LOVE Apples to Apples–everybody in the extended family does. (Although same issue of losing applies, also keeping close track of the green cards.) But we can only play it when we have an extra adult, until the 5yo is reading.

  18. When our daughter started playing board games a lot (age 4-ish?) we came up with the following set of groundrules to follow once the game was done: In our house, the loser says “congratulations” to the winner, and winner says “good game, thanks for playing” to the loser. Also, winner has to put the game away.From the very beginning we modeled being excited for the other person if it became obvious that he/she was going to win, e.g. “Wow, sweetie! You only have two more pieces to get and then you win! Look how waaaay far back I am – can you believe it? How exciting for you!” She picked up quickly that it’s okay to lose, and that the most important thing is that we got to hang out and play and have fun together. Unknown how much of that is due to temperament and how much is due to much modeling of a laissez-faire attitude toward losing.
    RE losing at Mancala: letting your child go first may give him a decent headstart. In our experience, whoever goes first in Mancala ALWAYS ends up the winner.

  19. Practice and growing older. I found that my son lost “better” to video games – we have a Wii – than to real people. The element of getting beaten by SOMEBODY, which can feel like somebody trying to beat YOU to a five year old, is missing. And the way Wii is built, the machine improves with the child, so by design the kid will win some and lose some. If s/he wants to keep playing the game, s/he has to deal with the occasional loss. Although there are times I rue the day the Wii entered our house, I fully credit it with teaching my son how to lose better. Now he is in a real live hockey program, and he takes his losses like a, to be gender specific, man.Oh, and sporting behavior would be gender neutral but terribly British.

  20. We used to do the exaggeration, too. I would announce that I would play with them as long as they remembered that it’s only fun if I win. Then, if they got ahead of me, I would pester them about remembering that it’s only fun if I win.We also play out the whole game, so after someone wins, we see “Who’ll win next?” and who’ll win after them.
    We are all for “Good game,” but we also allow the loser to shake her or his fist and say, “I’ll get you next time!” as long as it’s sufficiently hammed up.

  21. These are great ideas! I’m with mrs. camacho — I’ve got one of those too, at 4.5 years. I’m hoping she’ll grow out of it — because it’s really hard to teach her anything. On the other hand, she’s loving and not competitive at all.

  22. I like Kate’s comment of basically, “it’s how you play the game.” We have some in our family unit who are grown ups and don’t lose “well” including pouting and trash talk. So, it’s definitely a skill that we all need to keep learning.My older girl is in a more advanced soccer league than she has been in the past, playing better teams, and so far they have lost both their first games. She’s handled it well so far, and I think she can see how she and the team have improved in their play since the start of the season. They are all learning, and getting better, and maybe that is something you can point out in board game play. “What’s the best strategy to use in this game?”
    It’s hard. I’m not sure this is the platform, but could we make a suggestion to MLB that they start saying “good game” to their OPPONENTS after games, instead of their own teammates? I think this is actually a pretty big deal and could do a lot to further a general sense of good sports conduct (non-gendered alt.?) in the US. It astounds me that unlike other team sports here, MLB continues to do this.

  23. @Sally, I’m so with you on MLB – WTH is with the ritual of shaking hands with your own team after? It’s pathetic. If players can exchange sweaty jerseys after tense international soccer matches, we can do better.

  24. See, this is a really hard one for me because while in theory I totally agree that children should be taught how to lose and win gracefully (and really love some of the ideas presented above), I also find that a large part of the fun in playing games with other adults, especially when it’s just me and my husband, is the smack-talk that goes along with it. We gloat when we win, we “pout” when we lose, we mock threaten each other in the middle of a Yahtzee round. And I honestly think it takes the pressure off having to always be graceful, because let’s face it – winning feels good, and losing sucks.The caveat is that this kind of attitude needs to be all in good fun. My dad is a very intelligent guy, and a lot of his identity is tied up in that intelligence. Thus he has a hard time even as a grown man not taking it personally when he loses at games he thinks he should be smart enough to win. To me, it’s not the behavior itself after winning or losing that’s the problem so much as the feelings behind it. I want my children to learn that losing at games is not a reflection of their intelligence, nor is winning a sign of how brilliant they are.
    But I also don’t want them to think that the only enjoyment to be had out of games is the playing because … well, I just don’t think that’s true. Otherwise, no one would ever root for a sports team or push themselves to Olympic gold. Competitiveness seems to be human nature, and while there are many circumstances in which I’d want my kids to be able to lose gracefully (running for student council, ugh), playing games at home seems like a safe place where they can let that natural competitiveness out.

  25. What do parents do if family members are not all equally competitive? Rbelle’s reference to “natural competitiveness” is not something I see in myself or in all my kids, but I recognize that lots of people do have it. Can a “fun of the game” person and a “no one remembers who came in second” person get along? Can they play Wits and Wagers?

  26. My DD HATES games where there isn’t really a winner or loser. She used to suck at losing but after watching DH and I congratulate or console each other she is better at losing sometimes so long as she wins. When we get to a game where “everyone wins” she feels like she always loses.

  27. Loving the reccomendations here. My babes are 8 and 8 months so the game playing is just starting for us with the 3 year old (and she beats me hands down at memory everytime.) To address the “sportsmanship” question– I had a feminism class in college called “sport and gender” the professor used the term “approriate sport conduct” or “good sport conduct” It doesn’t roll off the toungue as nice as sportsmanship, but I think nothing will until we start using something consistently.

  28. I first get into their reality and empathize with him. Give words to express how frustrated he is about not winning, maybe some of the things he is feeling about himself that is triggering the outburst. Give those feelings a voice and a safe place to be expressed. Chances are it’s coming from a place where he is making some pretty deep attributions about himself. Let himself. Once he’s worked through the intense reaction, that’s the time to start talking about whether that’s an entirely true perspective, how it males others feel and even role play what poor losing and winning looks like so he can react. But in general, just helping him vent and listening should go a long way as he figures out what winning and losing mean in the big picture.

  29. Like @Katherine and @sweetcoalminer I like the “Playful Parenting” approach. One thing he mentions in there is that you can ask your kid, “Do you want me to play my hardest? or do you want me to let you win?” Your kid will let you know what they need, and, as they get older will ask you more and more to play your hardest (or go from play “easy” to “medium-hard” or whatever). Point being, letting your kid win sometimes (and modeling how to lose) is not going to create the expectation that everyone else in the world is going to let them win– it’s giving them a safe space to have their fantasy (maybe “winning the game” is the game/fantasy they want to play out, not actually playing the game in question, you know?) so that their cup is a little fuller when they go out and play full on with the other kids. Agreed that this is only possible if you go into a game with your kids knowing that your goal is not to win–it’s to give the kid your time/attention/support/whatever.I love the idea of a handicap– that seems very fair, too.
    @Rbelle: Re: smack talking, I totally get you; a bit of smack talking among equals can be a hilarious thing. OTOH, I grew up in a household where I was razzed mercilessly by my step-dad every time he beat me at Scrabble (which was every time we played)– he thought it was hilarious to come up with new and creative ways to insult my Scrabble prowess and general intelligence, but, being 14, I took it very personally. This treatment did not make me more determined than ever to beat him at Scrabble and go on to win the national Scrabble tournament, or whatever– it just made me think I was stupid and horrible at Scrabble when I was 14 and then look back on it as an adult and realize my step-Dad was/is kind of a dick. I’m wary of parenting in pursuit of “toughening kids up”… just letting them experience the world in general will do that without any added hazing at home.

  30. Hm, looks like there are lots of great suggestions with regards to the actual question, but I think nobody’s tackled the gender-neutral vocabulary challenge yet, so I’ll give it a try!I couldn’t come up with a perfect gender-neutral synonym, but depending on which aspects of “sportsmanship” you’re wanting to emphasize at the time, maybe you could try “graciousness in winning and losing,” or “fair play.”

  31. I’m slammed and haven’t read any of the posts, sorry about that. But I did want to chime in.I had a client a few years ago who had a stepson and a son who were the same age. They would compete with e-v-e-r-y thing. I suggested that the boys shift who they were competing against.
    My suggestion was that instead of competing against each other, they compete against themselves. That way they could each have bragging rights without lowering the self-esteem of the other.
    Mom and dad got them each their own journal and told them to record their victories. Each time they won a game, they could record whether or not their score had improved against the week before, not against their brother.
    This creates a process of besting your own best. It also teaches kids a more positive way to excel in the world. You don’t have to compete against another, you can compete against yourself and still improve your standing at work.
    It really works.

  32. As a Speech-Language Pathologist, I worked for many years with preschoolers. I would use games to pass the time and make therapy more fun. I would let them win at first to keep them engaged, and model appropriate levels of frustration at my own poor luck/abilities along with appreciation for their great skills/luck. By their second school year (of once-a-week therapy), most of them could handle losing. Many of them would call me out if I was letting them win. My feeling (similar to the Playful Parenting concept) is that they needed that experience of winning. At first they’re just learning “how to play” games. It’s too much of a cognitive and emotional load to learn “how to lose” at the same time.

  33. I don’t have any suggestions but a funny story (now, not at the time!) to share… I have twin boys and when they were 5 they got a Star Wars Trouble game. We brought it out and again that is a hard game to “throw” (roll of the dice, once you get to your last man you have no choice what your move is, etc.). Anyway, after trying so hard not to, I won. The boys started losing it. One boys was starting to cry. We decided to let them continue playing to see who would win next… again, so sad but my husband wound up next. At that point, we had one boy silently crying with tears streaming down his face. The other boy was on the floor having a full on tantrum. We said, that’s it. Game over. Tears for the next 15 minutes as we got them ready for bed. Then, I couldn’t believe it when one of my sons asked me, no less than 20 minutes after he had been on the floor crying, if we could play the game again the next day. Um, NO! We put that game away and it has not come back out since.As I type my story, maybe one hint is not to play the games right before bed when everyone is tired. Duh… light bulb moment there! Definitely reading all these hints. My boys are now six but one especially still has a melt down each time he loses.

  34. On a recent holiday the kids decided to race each other back to the house. When Noah (6.5) saw that his little sister (4.5) was winning ( she had been given a head-start), he promptly stopped trying and pouted all the way home.Noah then confessed that he gives up when he knows he can’t win. Actually, he does have a habit of this when we play Memory. He has an amazing ability to remember where the cards are and generally wins, even against us adults, be when he sees that his pile of cards is shorter than someone elses, he will walk off and say he doens’t want to play anymore.
    Anyway, the race incident led to a long conversation about the joy of doing things even if you know you are not going to win, like, in dh and my case, run a marathon. No, there is absolutely no way either of us will win ( we may not even finish for that matter), but we want to see how far we can push ourselves and experience the thrill of competing.
    He seemed to understand where we were coming from, and at least now he is happy to race and will continue running even if he sees he isn’t going to win, but how to translate this over to Memory (even after reading all these great ideas), still has me beat.

  35. @BluebirdMama, I agree with you on the letting them win sometimes, and also think @RS makes a great point about preschoolers (with older children I think it’s different). My 3 y.o. is just learning the concept of games, so we play easy memory games and Go Fish, and we set up some rules, but they’re flexible. He doesn’t seem to care much who wins, but he’s not quite ready to follow rigid rules. We figure, he’s 3. Different skills for different ages. But going back to issue of letting kids win sometimes, I have to say that letting them win sometimes is particularly important if your kids are going through a hard time about something. I had a difficult childhood, and felt very angry and powerless. I went to therapy and my therapist let me cheat at games. Of course I didn’t know he was letting me, and it made me feel powerful and happy; I finally could control a positive outcome for myself surrounded by situations I couldn’t control. (I was 5-6.) None of that had any effect on my teenage-grownup ability to win-lose-try hard. But I can definitely see objections to generalized letting kids win, esp in this day and age of helicoptering/ over-praise.

  36. I’m with the parent who asked the question. It’s tough. We use the term being a “good sport”. And “If you are a sore loser or cheat, I will not play with you again today.” My cousin coached her 5 year old daughter that after a game, the players shake hands and say, “Good game.” Of course, my son doesn’t melt down with his friends. That is my pleasure alone.With my second child, I started praising her DURING the game for being a “good sport” when things were not going her way, instead of waiting until we counted all the cards or saw who made it to the FINISH first.

  37. I had this challenge with my daughter when she was littler. I remember being creamed at almost everything by almost everyone growing up (youngest child within a competitive family). I promised the first time she cried when she lost at a game that I would turn it around. We didn’t play to win or lose. We played to learn and have fun. The better she got at a game, I told her, the more fun we would have. And eventually she’d want to play to win or lose and that would come when she was ready. So we had a lot of fun, and learned a lot along the way. We got through it and still love to play games together. I win, she wins, it’s not important since the goal of playing games is having fun. Maybe I’m lucky, but I really think it was taking a “playing to learn” approach that got us through it.Oh, and we also started playing some cooperative games that a teacher friend of ours recommended.

  38. Having the ritual where we congratulate each other (the winner and looser) with “good game” takes the edge off for my 4 yr old.I think it helps in downshifting from the intensity of trying to win to remembering that it’s for fun.
    We call it being or showing good sport.

  39. I know this question was from a long time ago, but in case anyone is looking for a good, beginning, non-competitive (in the traditional sense) game, I’d recommend Snail’s Pace Race by Ravensburger (http://www.amazon.com/Ravensburger-Snails-Pace-Race-Childrens/dp/B004KZ8P2Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1325821878&sr=1-1 ). It’s a great preschool game where different color snails race against each other. No one wins because the snails don’t “belong” to a person, your job is just to roll the die and move them along. It teaches the kids to cheer for the colors, but not be upset over losing.

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  44. Dzialaja wlasciwie w ramach generycznych pozyczek gdy a z zagospodarowaniem projektu niewspomozonemu unijnego dla fabryki – Jeremie. Wzniecam az do wprowadzenia sie sposrod ich obfita podaza.Stwierdzanie warunkow pozyczki – formalnosci
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