It Gets Better: Toddler Edition

Last Saturday I went to a party at a friend's house, and all of their parent friends and children were there. The majority of the kids were 4 and under. After about an hour, I looked around and thought, "I know I used to have kids this age, but HOW did I do this??"

The random crying/shrieking/whining. The bodily fluids everywhere. Sippy cups. Pick me up put me down. Constant need. Helping them navigate stairs. Trying to figure out what in the name of all that's holy they're trying to tell you when they point at the shelf and repeatedly say something that sounds like "murf!" The never being able to take your attention from them for a single second.

The constant

constant

constant

need.

And all these parents at the party were total champs, responding appropriately and seeming to not be sucked under by it all. But wow.

So I posted on Twitter about it this morning, that I genuinely do not remember that phase now that my kids are 6 and 9, and got a flood of responses from people in the middle of the toddler clustercuss. Based on those responses, I'm glad I've blocked it out. Seriously, how do any of us do this age range??

One responder asked for advice on making it through this phase. Since "Drink. A lot." is not really healthy or appropriate, I thought maybe those of us who have older kids could shine the light at the end of the tunnel.

So if your kids are older than 5 years and one month old (because that seems to be when the x-treme neediness combined with opposition ends), could you share some words of wisdom for people still in the middle of it? If you remember how you felt then, maybe compare that to how you feel now? Or talk about how the challenges now are different than they were then?

I'll start: Both of my kids are so much more self-sufficient. I can tell them to get dressed and they go find their own clothes in the drawers and put them on. They fix themselves snacks. They monitor their own hunger and thirst. I am completely out of the loop with their bathroom habits. I tell them to take a bath or go to bed or brush their teeth and they do it (grudgingly, but still).

My challenges at this age are helping them navigate socially and academically, and remembering that they are still little boys even though a lot of days it's like having two adult roommates who just like to snuggle a lot.

Who else has an It Gets Better for parents of toddlers?

133 thoughts on “It Gets Better: Toddler Edition”

  1. They can tell you what’s bothering them rather than just be so overwhelmed by unhappiness they completely lose their shit and wail so much their words are incomprehensible.That’s the main thing I do not miss.

  2. Five years and one month.Holy crap that is freaky. We are just there now and that is exactly right. My oldest turned five on May 29th and I just realized, wow, has she ever become easier.
    Some things are gradual; for the past several months she has been more or less getting herself ready for bed – uses the toilet, puts on her pjs, brushes her teeth, sometimes even climbs into bed and waits for me. She puts her dishes on the counter when she’s finished eating – often without a reminder. The last couple of weeks she has said, at naptime, “I don’t need you to read to me or hug or kiss me” and she just retires to her room for an hour or so (yes I have a five-year-old that still sleeps in the afternoon quite often – please don’t hate me). When she comes home from her daycare, she plops into a chair and watches Electric Company and Ruff Ruffman while I cook supper. Set her up with a craft and she’s good for an hour or so. Ditto if her toys inspire her.
    It’s not all peace in the valley – all bets are off if she’s tired (girl can sass and stall like no other if she’s cranky). And, we have a 2.5 year old who has begun kicking the bratty behaviour into high gear (she’s currently in don’t-hit training) and there is plenty of sibling drama – no one knows your buttons better than your sister. But for the most part the 5 year old is kind of awesome now. Agreed that the social navigation is the biggest challenge. Girl drama is crazy – I totally don’t remember it being there as early as kindergarten. She’s also been asking about death lately.

  3. Well I am looking forward to Feb ‘cos that is when DD turns 5 and a month. She at 4.5 is STILL a handful much of the time.My 6.5 year old is little Mr. Independent. In fact I have to remind myself constantly that he doesn’t need reminding constantly to brushteeth/wash hands/put on pjs etc. Old habits are hard to break sometimes. He is so much more interesting to talk to now at this age and is fascinated by how all things work and long discussions about what you can learn from blood tests or how vast space is tend to dominate over playing with trains and blocks together. I love this age.

  4. Okay, every time I think there might be a light at the end someone pulls it away. You hear about the “terrible twos.” Then near the end of that when you start to relax someone tells you what you hadn’t heard of, the “effing threes.” Now that I’m just two months away from four you say I’m still in for this until five years and one month!?Forgive my drama but I lived through a category five tantrum this morning and I was really hoping the end was near. I’ll be reading the rest of the comments looking for hope… or a drinking buddy.

  5. thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou.My 2 1/2 year old: the highs are so great, the LOWS are KILLING ME. the wailing, the fretting, the fear, the open-mouth-jaw-dropped-SCREAMING.
    and I thought breastfeeding was hard.
    [clinging to the refresh button and reading the moxites replies word.for.effing.word.]

  6. A few days ago a couple of moms and I were chatting about this very thing, and one of them said “screw the terrible twos – someone should warn the world about the f**king fours”.She then paused and said, “but five? The fantastic fives. Remember that.”
    Seeing how my DS is 4, I nodded my head and made a mental note to not forget.

  7. My just-five-year old son (he’ll be ‘five and a month’ in 3 weeks – are you telling me the angels will descend at that point?) has been a terror the last few weeks, and I recently went back and looked at the archives of my journal for dates when his (now nearly 8yo) sister was just-5. I find this very useful with the younger one in general – to see what was making me crazy about the older one at the same age, and what (if anything) helped.This time the lesson was, his sister was actually no trouble at all at just-5, but DAMN was it a lot of hard work having a 2 year old! Dillo was incredibly sweet tempered at 2, and easy to deal with in personality ways, but he was still nursing, still often up multiple times in the night, still in diapers, and basically, you know, constantly needy. Like young 2 year olds are. Rereading the entries tempered my frustration at his current phase of sass, punching, and rudeness – at least I am sleeping through the night now, and if he can’t wipe his own butt or put on his socks reliably yet, there are tons of things he can do, like play by himself, and wipe up spills, and – all sorts of things.
    I posted about the woes of just-5 on Facebook and a friend who is a Montessori teacher replied that 5-6 is a difficult period for many children, previewing some of the issues that particular child will have in adolescence (so a good time to try and get a handle on the behaviors NOW!). But she said 6-11 (and later in some kids) is a really delightful age. I can vouch for this with my older child. She thinks of other people and is considerate of their needs! She is interested in everything and full of energy! She navigates a lot of social stuff by herself and seems fairly level-headed! Truly it is a golden age. And maybe it will descend on my son in 3 weeks. Here’s hoping, because I am getting so tired of saying, “I can’t understand what you’re saying when you are rude. Could you please ask nicely if you need something?”

  8. This gives me hope. My oldest will be 5 at the end of September. Of course my middle is about to enter the “effing threes” (Ha!). My youngest is the queen of mellow as a baby. Hopefully that will hold somewhat during the coming toddler years.

  9. Wow-I totally needed this post today! I have a 20 month old who has to be The. Most. Difficult. Child. On. The. Planet. He’s well into the “terrible two’s” and he’s cutting his two year molars even though he’s not two yet. He’s doing everything possible to ensure that he remains an only child.Erica & Laurie, I’ll be joining you for that drink!

  10. Ha. I’m not out of the woods yet, but I must say “4” is not all that bad. My oldest is 4 1/2 and has REALLY mellowed out in the last 2 months or so. Right at 4, she was a huge bundle of emotions and it was not an easy phase. But she’s really relaxed a lot and been quite a delight in recent months. I hope age 5 (and 1 month) is even better! That said, I am very much in the trenches with my #2. She’s 20 months, and wow is that girl stubborn! We are having lots of issues with biting, hitting, throwing things and general freak-outs when she doesn’t get what she wants. Luckily, her sleep has improved a lot and we’re no longer nursing. So it’s somewhat less physically demanding than the early months. But hoo boy, she is a piece of work!

  11. It comes and goes. Some days, 6 yo is awesome getting snacks for himself (and his brother). Other days I am ready to send him to be a page in a feudal castle ‘cuz you used to be able to do that, you know.Some days, my heart melts when my 2 yo declares “I big boy” all the while clutching his blankie with a binky in his mouth. “Sure, right, kid. Whatever you say, big boy.” But other times he flings himself onto the ground in the toy store (screaming), gives you that look, and proceeds to fill his diaper with vile horribleness…on purpose…because he wants to leave and now you have to.
    I just hope as they age, the days of unicorn awesome sauce increase in frequency.

  12. My oldest is 4 and 9 months, and he’s more and more independent… except when he decides to regress and act like a baby. There’s some awful new behaviors I could do without, like bursting into tears because I tell him an hour and a half of TV is “enough.” Wow. But I can see things gradually improving, although I’m about to throw his world for a loop by adding a second little brother in 7 weeks or so. We’ll see what happens.It’s my 2.5-year-old who’s becoming more…toddlery. He’s always been so easy. He’s very independent, at least as much as a two-year-old can be, but he’s becoming more defiant, and he’s so aggressive, especially with the above-mentioned 4.5-year-old.
    So, yeah. Looking forward to it “getting better.” At least I know what to expect for the impending infant… I think.

  13. I think I’m so far in the trenches that I’m taking it day by day. The start of three has been topsy-turvy. Milder and easier in many aspects. But the tantrums are ramping up already. I fear 3.5. Let alone 4 and later. So I guess I should be planning a party for right around July 2013.It will be a happy day when I can have a conversation with another adult for more than 2 minutes while DS is around. But otherwise his crazy-making antics are conveniently set off by heart-crushingly cute moments right now.
    Taking notes to both enjoy the cute things that happen at this age and to know that the difficult/energy-draining things will eventually pass.

  14. As the mother of a 3 1/2 year old, this is all going to be helpful. But I’m getting through it now mostly because my little guy is so much more independent than he was as a baby and he’s not constantly attached to me the way he was then. He can drink and eat by himself, he’s getting really good at the potty, he can play by himself and amuse himself. He’s curious and talkative and funny and a very independent little person. This is the first summer in 3 years that I’ve been able to garden because now Zack can amuse himself for hours with the hose and a bucket of water. I don’t have to worry about him eating some random plant or something like that. So I think it’s all relative because a lot of what you said about your 6 and 9 year olds being independent are things I think about my little guy.That said, I would like a quarter for every time I hear “Mommy!” 🙂

  15. I, too, am grateful for the timely appearance of this post. (And I’ll be joining all of the other toddler-moms in having a drink!) My daughter will be 3 in October and it seems like “Hey Mommy!” is her most-uttered phrase at the moment– “Hey Mommy, I need this!” “Hey Mommy, I can’t find this!” “Hey Mommy, I have to poop but I refuse to do it in the toilet!” “Hey Mommy, Hey Mommy, HEY MOMMY!”I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I’m conducting a daily countdown to naptime (and then bedtime) every day.

  16. So in addition to the waning of crappy behavior I do not miss, I should mention the delightful behavior I’m really enjoying, right?Appreciating what other people do for him: “Thank you for giving me big strawberries in my lunch, Mommy. It was such a nice surprise when I opened the container!”
    Coming up with realistic plans: “If I get ready for bed early tonight, can I have extra stories?”
    Remembering rules: “I’m going to run ahead, but then I’ll stop at the corner and wait for you.”
    Wanting to help: “Can I give the dog some more water?”
    Being happy for other people: “He did a really good job drawing that picture, didn’t he, Mommy?”

  17. re: 5 years and one month.ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease let this be true. My son turned 5 ten days ago, and at the moment I’ve never been more frustrated with him (partly because he’s become obsessed with Star Wars – which he’s never seen – and everything is now a lightsaber). The idea that suddenly I might be able to get him to pee without it being a big argument, or that one day he’ll dress himself or just, you know, not argue with me about every. single. thing.
    That, well, that would be too much to hope for, really.

  18. My kids aren’t toddlers anymore, but can I join the cocktail party? Pllleeeaaassse? It sounds divine. ;)Mine are 5 and 8 now. They still have their moments (5yo is a fearless stubborn hyperactive chatterbox, and 8yo is an easily-frustrated smartypants). Sometimes I’d like to serve us ALL a shot of tequila. But overall, it is MUCH MUCH better. I feel more human…and they seem more human, KWIM? They carry on long conversations. They are creative and imaginative and industrious. They are fun to play with. I can turn my back on them for 5 minutes with relative assurance that they won’t burst into flame/walk in front of a car/kill each other.
    I just returned from a week helping my sister, who has a 1.5yo and a brand-new baby. My primary duty, of course, was to the toddler. He was so cute I could’ve eaten him whole, but yeah…the constant need/gnatlike attention span? I’d forgotten how hard it can be to cope with that sometimes.
    Hang in there, parents of toddlers. It really does get better. You’ll be here before you know it!

  19. I have nothing helpful to add, since my kid is two, but reading this made me laugh out loud with the accuracy of it all, and given the day that I have just had with my two year old, I reallyreallyreally needed that laugh.Thank you!

  20. I have a 6-year old and an almost 4-year old. Woah, baby does it ever get better! I see my sister with her 2-year old, and I can’t imagine dealing, but I know less than 2 years ago that was me with my daughter. I LOVE that my son can bathe himself and dress himself and remember to “stay hydrated” (his word choice, not mine which amuses me). I love that he can occupy himself for ages at a time with his own toys and I don’t have to constantly direct him to what is appropriate. I love that he can read, but comes to me for the hard words (or sometimes just uses the word–mispronunciation and all which also amuses me). I love that he can help out with his sister (although they DO NOT always get along). My daughter is very headstrong so we butt heads a lot, but she can dress herself, and potty alone (mostly!), and feed herself, and frankly I like the stages they are at just fine right now!Oh, buckling seatbelts! They are both capable (mostly) of buckling themselves, I never realized how much I hated that chore, but I don’t have to do it anymore!
    I’m pretty sure I could sing a song about no more diapers. I got my husband to change many of them so I don’t feel that I can complain too much, but I am thankful not to have diapers in the house anymore!
    It’s not all roses, my daughter and I had a 30-minute stand-off just the other day because she didn’t want to walk the 10 steps from the car to the house, and I didn’t want to carry her. She screamed until the neighbors came out to investigate, and I’m ashamed to say that she won that round, sort of, since I don’t really count screaming for 30 minutes as a “win” for anyone.
    I love the snuggles the best, though. When they seek you out for a snuggle–there’s nothing better than that.

  21. I definitely thought 3 was the pinnacle of PITA behavior. Two was a breeze for me (relatively speaking).For example:
    Mom: You may have/do X or Y.
    2 yo child: [chooses X or Y]
    3 yo child: NO! I WANT Z!
    (Of course now, and 5 1/2 and 7, I get: You told me on Thursday, June 22, 2009 that if the planets were aligned with mercury in retrograde, Z would be on the table as long as I was wearing long sleeves and said please. You promised, Mom.)
    But yes, agreed on the independence factor. Plus anybody still in the throes of sleep yuck should know that my parenting day pretty much ends at 8 pm when I tell my older child that she may read until 8:15 and needs to have her light out by 8:30. And that when my brother left the room recently to “change” their 2yo, I was genuinely surprised to see him come back in the same clothes, as I’d assumed he was going to put his pajamas on — what are these diapers you speak of?
    I find that, at 7, the novelty of helping Mommy was worn off, but the ability to be of *actual* help makes up for it. She can make and pack her own lunch for school. They can be left to get breakfast for themselves.
    Plus it’s fun to see them beginning to do things that are legitimately cool (as opposed to just cute-because-it’s-my-kid or impressive-for-a-2yo). My daughter’s mastering roundoff-backhandsprings at gymnastics and my son uses these amazing colors when he creates art. I love it that they’re at an age where we can learn things together instead of me just telling them things I already know.
    And in the interest of playing devil’s advocate just a little bit:
    I’m the weirdo that loved the baby stage best of all (so far). I never minded the neediness, so long as I knew what they needed. It never (OK, not *never*, but you know what I mean) bothered me to rock for an hour at bedtime if that’s what my little guy needed, or sing songs and tell stories for 2 hours in the car if that’s how we were going to get to the campground emotionally intact.
    What’s hard for me now is that it’s so much less clear to me what my kids need. I suck at knowing how to handle social dynamics. I’m pretty good at staying firm at my boundaries, but how do I know when it’s legitimately time to change those boundaries? And, hardest of all, when is it time for me to step back and *not* help at all. When is the right answer a hug and empathy? The transition from Knower Of How to Fix All Things to Trusted Advocate Who Expects Me To Solve Things On My Own is a hard one for me.
    But whoa, being able to say, on Friday night, that nobody has to be anywhere first thing Saturday, so Mommy would love to sleep until 7:30 and then have that ACTUALLY HAPPEN … that’s pretty priceless. 🙂

  22. My older boys are 5 and 7 and my baby turns 1 on Sunday. Yesterday the baby figured out how to crawl onto the couch and over our barricades. I was hit by that “egads, I forgot how hard this is!” feeling.Best I can figure, all the learning they’re doing makes up for the headaches. When they’re learning a new word every day and figuring out fun things, it helps.

  23. My son turned 5 in December and I honestly can’t remember much of drudgery of the toddler or even early pre-school years. It had dawned on me not too long ago that it has been well over a year since we’ve had to put him in a time out or start “counting.” Also, giving up naps was a great thing for us. While I do miss having a break in the middle of the day, I certainly don’t miss the fight to get him to (not) nap.Some recent perks are that he recently started taking showers on his own, so the bed time routine is a lot quicker and hands-off for us – and no more ring around my bathtub! I also just realized this morning that we haven’t had to retie his shoes in a few weeks. He’s been “tying” them on his own for a while, but in his own strange way, so they would always become undone. But lately they have been staying tied. I also love his creativity and intelligence. He’s made his own above ground swimming pool, complete with diving board and filter, and also a microscope out of construction paper.
    But, as I’ve often heard, the bigger the kid, the bigger the problems. We’ve had quite a few instances lately where he was showing his privates to other kids and pressuring them to do the same, telling them not to tell their parents, then lying to us about it. I know, it’s age appropriate, but we’re still figuring out how to deal with these kinds of things.

  24. I’m with @Jan on the boundaries/social dynamic/Fixer of Everything changing to Trusted Advocate stage iffiness.I’m afraid I may be a LITTLE BIT of a helicopter parent, but I’m working on that! 🙂

  25. Oh, I almost forgot one of the best perks of this age! On weekends, my son goes downstairs and turns on the TV himself and lets us sleep until 7:00! (I do put it on the proper channel the night before.)

  26. Mouse is 7 years, 3 months and going into 2nd grade. When she was 2 years 9 mos, I wrote to Moxie out of complete frustration: http://www.askmoxie.org/2007/01/qa_29yearold_sn.html – and that was when she was already totally verbal and getting easier.What stands out to me as a difference is just the de-escalation of bad moments. Full on sh*tfit tantrums became coherent shrieking around 3, then gawdawful whining around 4, and shrieking was only for tired/hungry situations. Gawdawful whining became obnoxious negotiation at 5, with still gawdawful whining in bad moments. Around 6, the whining got less extreme and more occasional. Reluctant agreement became possible. Now, at 7, whining at all is “uh oh must be hungry” *and she even sometimes gets that and goes and eats a snack and comes back*; “go read a book” is an acceptable and usually followed recommendation for boredom. “Ugh, OK mommy” is an answer that we get and accept when she’s told to do something she doesn’t want to do. There’s still negotiation, but not over every damn little thing, and her counteroffers are a lot more creative and actually aimed at compromise.
    The whole reading thing is absolutely huge – the kid can be brought to a meeting or an adult dinner without any problem at all, as long as she has a long enough book. And she’s beginning to enjoy a lot more activities that overlap with us – we all watched the NCAA tournament together, for example, eating chicken-asparagus salad all the while. She has a great deal more endurance for hiking and traveling, and her friends are actually fun to talk to in themselves.
    Also: drop-off playdates and birthday parties.
    So yeah, much much better. Hang in there!

  27. I was flipping out a couple of weeks ago – just random life stuff on top of constant parenting – and I took my not-totally-happy 5 month old and put him in the bouncy chair and told my almost-6-year-old that I was taking a ten minute shower and if the baby cried it was ok.When I turned the water off, my almost-6 was sitting next to the bouncy chair singing songs to my enraptured 5 month old.
    Unbidden.
    He had left a Wii game to do so.
    On a different floor of the house.
    So yes, it gets better…although I have the toddler years ahead with #2, which is when you really can’t shower, eeeek.

  28. @Charisse, I read your old question and what leapt out at me was the phrase, “alcohol helps.” Granted, it was talking about how to get stains out of clothing, but still. A motif!

  29. I’m done with it with my older one (he’s 5.5), and in the middle of it with my youngest one (2.5) – who I just started potty training today. My older one will say, “I’m not really comfortable with that” and then outline reasons 1 – 12 (with footnotes) to support his feelings. My younger one just screams his bloody head off for no apparent reason. I know it will end because my older one used to be the same way but….it is just so terribly hard when you’re in the middle of it.

  30. We keep debating about being one and done and trying for a second. We use Moxie’s phrase BPON aka bottomless pit of need often around here these days but we just transitioned to big boy bed and re-sleep training so I guess its expected. I just look at other families that have 2,3,4 kids and the moms seem so together and right on top of the kids and can have a conversation. So maybe its just me!! That’s a thought:)Thanks for the encouragement, its a wild ride and 80% of the time I love it and don’t want to get off, the other 20% get me the effing off!!!

  31. My daughter is 2.5 and I already feel like life is sooooo much better than it was. Of course, she was a colicky, high-needs, sleep only on mommy baby, who cried for most of her first year of life. She may be needy now, but it’s nothing compared to the past. If 5 yrs is better than what we have now, then it must be heaven!

  32. L is 3 and 2 months. I’m not looking forward to 3.5, let alone 4… but y’all give me hope for 5. Although I’ll still be in the thick of it with the now-7mo.. and then there’re the still-hypothetical future babies.. Good thing I ADORE infancy!

  33. I am right in there with a 19-month old. Typical stuff: loving yogurt one day and hating it the next, repeating the name of the thing she wants over and over until she gets it….we all know the drill. To keep them safe and entertained, you need to be “on” most of the time.However, the toddler stuff (so far) seems a lot easier than the infant stuff. Our daughter was colic and it was utter misery for the first 4 months. For us, we started parenting right at rock bottom – we hated pretty much everything about having a very young infant. The closer she gets to toddler – and further from baby – the better we like it.

  34. Can’t wait to read these comments later; I REALLY need them. However, I’ll have to come back tonight, because this afternoon, I am keeping an eagle eye on my 2 1/2-year-old, who ended up in the emergency room Monday night when he kept trying to take a toy away from his 6 1/2-year-old brother, with the CONSTANT and REPEATED cry of “But I need….” Though the older one has been appropriately disciplined for the (actually fairly gentle) nudge that knocked the little one off balance, into the coffee table, and off to the ER with a gash to the cheek … I privately have to register that I don’t blame big brother all that much. The relentlessness is enough to drive anyone over the edge.And since we are leaving on vacation Saturday–what is possessing us to do this?–the law has been laid: No one else is ending up at the doctor this week, for anything. Hence the need to watch the little one every second until we leave.
    So yes, some light at the end of the tunnel will be nice to read about. My 6 1/2-year-old is a pleasant reminder of what’s to come individually, but I’m hoping that some commenter will touch on improved sibling interactions once the littler ones approach the age of reason.

  35. Thank you for these words of encouragement, Moxie and sweet commenters. I’m glad I’m not alone, at least. I have a two-year-old boy and my husband has the audacity to want another child. I just. Can’t. Not yet.

  36. Heidi, I’ll give you what you’re looking for!My son (now 8) welcomed his baby sister (now 5) with a resounding smack to the head. Not a great start…and it took a long time before they were able to play together.
    Now they are best friends (really) despite their age difference. Luckily Thing One is very tolerant, and Thing Two is quite brave. They’re a good match. They have the same silly streak, the same type of imagination, the same love of music, etc. Big boy often reads stories to little girl, they bring each other snacks & drinks, they come up with play ideas together, gang up against The Parents, and on and on.
    Sibling relations have definitely improved in this house.

  37. Timely, as usual. My daughter is 10 months and may not technically count as a toddler (although she’s certainly starting to “toddle”), but I’m already seeing meltdowns over not getting her way, not being able to get a toy to work how she wants it, Mommy or Daddy leaving the room, being stuck in the stroller or carseat. Sigh. I’m one of those rare people who found the newborn + a few months stages much easier (in retrospect, at least) than 6+ months. Yes she was a bundle of need – but it was almost entirely the need to be held and/or nursed which I was more than capable of doing. Yes, I couldn’t put her down for more than a minute or two, but she was light and the Ergo was quite helpful. Sure we had to stand and walk or rock her if we wanted to watch a movie in relative peace, but she was incapable of trying to take and eat the remote. I’m sure my memory of those early days is quite hazy – I know I was weepy and shell-shocked at times. But everyone expected me to be, and nobody looked askance if I spent the entire day holding and nursing the baby on the couch while I watched hours of Law & Order. Now, my expectations of both myself and my child are higher and I find myself getting much more frustrated. The only consolation is that my daughter is more ridiculously adorable than she’s ever been, and I assume that will increase proportional to how much more difficult the toddler years get. That’s what I’m banking on, anyway 🙂 As my mom says, you always look forward to the next stage, until you’re in it.

  38. I should also add that while my daughter wasn’t exactly an easy infant (especially once she started “waking on impact” when I tried to put her down for naps), she wasn’t overly fussy either, and she slept well at night, right up until the 4 month regression (hasn’t slept well since, sigh). I honestly think my ability to deal with any given stage/behavior has everything to do with how much sleep I’ve gotten.

  39. It really helps to see this topic addressed. I’m about to go back to work full time after being a SAHM for the past year, and I’m having the usual mommy guilt about sending my 16-month-old to daycare, all the more so because one part of me is relieved that I won’t be trapped in the air conditioned house for the remainder of the very very hot summer with an increasingly stubborn, tantrummy and still non-verbal toddler (the tantrums are likely due to the non-verbal-ness). If I wasn’t going back to work, I’m afraid I’d be locking myself in a closet with a bottle of bourbon by September.

  40. OMG!! 1) @Tine, my DS is the exact same as your child “(5yo is a fearless stubborn hyperactive chatterbox…”He just turned 5 in June and we are still SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO frustrated with his behavior and constant arguing, whining, and overall little shittiness. 2) I very much needed to read this because of #1. Thank you Moxie.
    Crossing my fingers for relief soon, asap, toot sweet, post haste, etc.

  41. It is so hard and exhausting. I have a 3 y. o. and 14 m.o. and sometimes I’m so tired I can’t form coherent thoughts or sentences. I can’t remember ANYthing – it’s like having early-on dementia. I’m so sick of the constant *needs* every second and the screaming oy ve the screaming.But like @Jan, I find myself in the position of being a baby and toddler lover. Especially babies – of course I had/have very sunny happy joyfilled little ones, especially from the time they could sit up /walk on. It’s a happy time for me, and I love watching them come alive and show who they are, and their little baby thighs and hands. . . (Not 2.5+ – we have tantrums tantrums tantrums. Throwing things at me – often – hitting, spitting, the whole works. Luckily I turned “I don’t love YOU” into a game a long time ago, so he doesn’t use that one anymore.)
    @Rbelle – right on about the stages! Though I find myself more nostalgic about #2s new phases, as I have a clearer sense of babyhood rapidly passing.

  42. It is just so nice to come on here and get validation that this stage is DANG hard! I have a 6yo, 4yo, and 2.5yo. You’d think I’d have it easier with the older two, and with some of the physical neediness I do, but many days I feel like I get to experience the WORST of each stage, *all at once*.

  43. Hey, I have a question for you guys – a bit OT and a bit on-topic. It’s about my 3 y.o. So, he throws things at me after a correction. It doesn’t matter how gentle/matter-of-fact. My guess is that he’s flooded with emotion (anger, shame) after the correction he has to act out. We are slowly working with him on verbalizing emotions to help stop the problem before it starts, but real question is this – what should I do *after* he throws something? I’ll admit it makes me pretty angry, and that probably clouds my judgment. Ignoring him doesn’t seem like a good idea, and we don’t really “do” time outs. Basically I want to get my point across without an escalation. Or perhaps with one, if it will help. Ideas?

  44. Wait, this is supposed to be encouraging? Four. more. years until the younger is there. OUCH. And yet, most of me knows these years will fly by.Erin, if my 3 yo does something like that, we pretty much cannot move on to the next activity until he has picked up the object. If he continues to refuse, then often I will tell him that if he is too tired to listen to mommy, then he probably needs a nap. The threat of an unscheduled nap usually works. It’s actually usually true, also.

  45. I’m in the middle of that stage…. I burst out laughing at this: “Trying to figure out what in the name of all that’s holy they’re trying to tell you when they point at the shelf and repeatedly say something that sounds like “murf!”” My son is doing that to my husband RIGHT NOW!I think the reason it doesn’t seem so bad at the time is because it’s really much better than it was. My son has random incomprehensible outbursts, but I don’t have to carry him everywhere all the time even when my back aches and my arms feel like spaghetti. He is loud and sticky, but sometimes when he cries, I can ask him what’s wrong, and he actually tells me so I can fix it. It’s revolutionary!
    I still look forward to when he’s more self-sufficient, but every time he learns to do something else by himself or figures out how to say something new, my life gets just a teeny bit easier (and I’m sure his does too!).

  46. I have a 5 and a 7 year old. Keeping with the drinking motif, I have to tell this story: a few months ago we were at a pizza place, and DH and I each ordered a beer. When the waitress brought them, I was kind of embarrassed because it was this huge looking stein. I said something like, “Oh, wow, I’m a great mom, aren’t I” The waitress looked me straight in the eye and said, “Sometimes it makes you a better mother.” There was no judgement. She got a big tip.

  47. Our girls just turned four a few days ago. 2 1/2 was a trial and the 3s truly just sucked. Here’s hoping that 4s start to let up a bit on the irrational TEARS and DRAMA and I DO IT MYSELF and blah blah blah. I love these kids, but seriously, there have been days in the last 6 months where I wanted to dope slap someone (and usually myself too) Here’s hoping that in a year or so things will feel like they are easing up!

  48. Thanks for posting this. Yesterday was hard, the 4.5 year old was pitching a fit about everything from what clothes to wear to a craft gone badly because the paper was double sided and she didn’t want to mess up either side. The whining, does it ever stop? And the 14 month old has figured out a new trick of climbing on furniture and is now doing so without ANY self preservation instinct. I needed to know that it should…. slow down, at least with the older one, in just a few months.

  49. I drank. A lot. No really, I kind of did. My SIL and I managed to marry wonderful dad-moms for our boys, and they would watch this kids while we drank and bitched and moaned and laughed for a few hours every week or so.18 months and 3 years were the worst ages for me. 5+ is easy, funny, and sweet. The other day it suddenly dawned on me that he can do everything by himself–dress himself, feed himself, turn the light on himself, wipe his own butt himself, turn on his own movies and video games, and even shower himself.
    5 is a little smart-alecky, and I’ll admit that every now and then I miss my chubby baby/toddler, but watching this little boy’s thoughtful and wickedly funny personality evolve totally makes up for that.

  50. @Everybody – thanks so much for the advice & tips & commiseration! The only thing that I feel like I’m doing “right” on this front is that we can totally see that he’s reacting that way out of anger and shame (especially the latter). So I try to keep it matter of fact, and also keep things from escalating. But I often just lose my temper (gee, can anyone here relate?!?) especially when he pushes his brother. I had a little revelation last night – I realized that we’d spent SO much time on trying to figure out which correction to use and implementing them all the time that kind of his whole life had turned into one correction after another. I thought, Whoah, I need to back the f**k off this kid. So instead of picking up Stop Reacting (which I love, Sharon!), I picked up Playful Parenting, which I had already read but when he was kind of too young for it. And now I’m really starting to think about all the ways I can re-direct & express his emotion through play rather than correction. We’ll see how it works in practice, but it feels like the right thing.

  51. I’ve got a 2.5 year old and a nearly 5 year old and it’s kicking my ass right now. Nearly every day I reach a point where I just want to cry. My little one is constantly near peril (a boy thing?) and my 4 year old is constantly near “hysterics” as I have grown to call it. They are either thick as thieves or they are fighting like cats and dogs. They are always calling for me, asking me to do something, get something, feed them, watch them, tell them what we are going to do…etc. etc. Maybe because it’s summertime and I’m with them so much, but if being 5 is a magic number, I’m going to hold my breath for the next couple of months until my older one turns 5.I’m positive that what I described above is perfectly normal, but I’ve sort of reached a point where I just simply want to be drunk all day. In any case, this post by Moxie is very timely for me and I’m also looking forward to some hopeful stories!!

  52. Well, I have a 4 year old and a 6 month old and right now the baby is winning. Sure, I have to watch her like a hawk to make sure she’s not eating pebbles (she learned to crawl about a week ago and her favorite thing to do in our backyard is crawl OFF the nice safe clean padded mats and explore dirt caked into the concrete patio instead), but on the other hand she NEVER whines or talks back. Ever.

  53. When I posted my first comment I was kind of thinking, “We have an easy-going kid for the most part. Things aren’t so bad. The crazy-making days have considerably lessened since 2yo and definitely since 1yo when there was more of a constant demand.”Yeah.
    Tonight was a contrary, ‘stay with me mama’ whine-fest filled with many requests for ‘milk à mama’ while I was trying to get things done, like dinner on the table, refusal to say goodnight to papa who was going out, the list goes on…
    I don’t know if the bad periods are worse now or if they just seem that way because you can actually see a contrast now between good days/moments and trying ones. Nah…I think it’s just the contrast. Sleep regression hells of younger ages (and all the fallout there from) were much, much worse. For me anyhow.
    Time to make a margarita, I think.
    @SarcastiCarrie, ‘unicorn awesome sauce’…nice.
    @Erica, “That said, I would like a quarter for every time I hear “Mommy!” :)” Ha. This would be the best paying gig out there. I would be rich. Rich!
    @Slim, Thanks for the specific examples of the delightful behaviour we can (hopefully) look forward to.
    @Tine, “Sometimes I’d like to serve us ALL a shot of tequila.” Heh.
    @Jan, “Mom: You may have/do X or Y. 2 yo child: [chooses X or Y] 3 yo child: NO! I WANT Z!” Oh yes. This is exactly it. Joy oh joy.
    @Stacy, Oh, the damn counting. I’m getting so sick of hearing myself say “three more times of doing X and we’re stopping Y…that’s one…etc.” (But thanks to @Sharon from Proactive Parenting – it works…even if I’m sick of saying it!).
    @Charisse, Glad to hear that that the shrieking/whining etc. moves through phases and eventually is grown out of. Also, re-read your past question and I was curious what ended up working for you guys in terms of stopping the yelling on Mouse’s part? DS is in this phase of whining loudly (almost like a yell) when we do something he doesn’t like and it’s getting mighty annoying. And then half the time we stop doing whatever and he gets upset again because we stopped. We remind him to use his words. But if you have any words of wisdom…
    @Erin, We’re in the same boat with our 3yo. He ‘hits’ us after a correction. I say ‘hits’ in quotes as he does it so gently sometimes that I have to stop myself from laughing. We try to be as gentle/matter-of-fact as possible for corrections unless it is something ultra dangerous / life-threatening. Mostly we succeed. Sometimes we don’t. His response is definitely worse when we don’t succeed at being matter-of-fact for run of the mill stuff. And I think too that he is flooded with anger and even more so, shame, after he’s been corrected. But I don’t know what to do with that. All I end up saying is ‘It’s OK if you made a mistake. I’m just telling you how it feels/what you should do the next time so that you know.’ To which he usually “hits” again. Until he’s even more verbal I’m not really sure how to deal with the whole shame thing. Ignoring always escalates for us and we don’t do “time outs” either. Anyhow, no real ideas for you but just commiseration.
    @Rudyinparis, Awesome. Story.

  54. Oh my god, the whining! The never-ending whining! S is 21 months and very, very vocal but, even when she tells me what she wants, it turns out she doesn’t want it, oh wait she does, no she doesn’t, but maybe… wwahhhhhh!!!!! Everything’s a blessed whine these days!So I obviously have no tips, just commiseration on how tough some of these days can be. I have half-conversations with friends these days, too, as their kids are either older or younger and don’t need chasing. Whereas I’m always looking for slips, spills, rocks, other kids, stairs, cars, water, dirt, you name it.

  55. And let me second whoever said the amount of sleep you had influences how you deal with the day. We’re trying to get S to sleep all night in her own room, and things are not going to plan. She was up from 4 till 7 last night–like she was a 4 month old again. Lord help me, it was a tough day…

  56. I’m a little afraid to ask, but what exactly is so “effing” awful about 3? What types of behaviors? My son will be 3 in about 2 weeks… and I have to say that in the past 2 months or so he has matured so much and is generally quite fabulous right now. But everyone always talks about how awful 3 is, and I’m just curious what makes is so rough.

  57. Wait, you’re NOT supposed to drink? Well crap. Now I have to totally reevaluate my parenting.I have almost 5, 2.5, and 1 (today!). It is… insane. Just insane. People ask how i do it and i say “I don’t know, I guess I just do it because I have to.” I really don’t know, I am so exhausted all the time. And sometimes I can be a huge asshole to my kids when it gets to be too much, and then that starts the guilt spiral and etc etc etc. I mean really, I can see it getting better already. The oldest doesn’t need me to deal with her bathroom stuff, she goes to bed easily after a book and a kiss, she is helpful and fun and sweet with her sibings. The whining can be a bit much, and the neverending negotiation, but really she is her own little It Gets Better example right in my house. So on those days when the little ones have pooped 3 times each and I feel like I’ll never again go to the bathroom by myself – I can remind myself that she is proof that it will happen. Someday.

  58. @eeeeee, I think the 2nd half of 3 is supposed to be the most challenging part with the contrariness, refusal to co-operate, digging-their-heels-in kind of tantrums, etc. We’ve seen glimpses of this now at 3y1m, and those moments are not much fun. I’m sure the Moxites who have lived through 3 will have many more concrete examples…

  59. @eeeeee, Oh yeah, and I think it’s the age (one of the ages?!) of big power struggles. Because we all need more of those in our days.

  60. Well, I don’t mean to jinx myself, but I’m finding 4 a big improvement over earlier years though certainly it’s got its downsides. Our kid in an only which, though it’s not what I’d hoped for, does have its advantages (But ye gods! The pretend play where I have to act out a role — “Mama, you be a bird and I’ll be a t-rex,” — and follow a set dialogue — “Tweet tweet! Oh, hi, t-rex! Are you a friendly t-rex [pause] oh good, because I’m just a tiny bird. I’m hungry, do you have any food that birds like to eat? [pause] Oh, I don’t know, seeds and worms and stuff…”). Er, where was I? Oh, right. Mostly I’m just glad he’s getting older, enjoying me reading slightly more complex books to him, and that there’s a short but real list of stuff we (both) really enjoy doing together.I’ve learned to be pretty ruthless about directing us toward activities I enjoy, when feasible (e.g. kayaking, where he can participate but can’t wander off), and have just recently realized that I had gotten too cumulatively flexible about a bunch of things that, collectively, were exhausting me (and honestly, providing him with too little structure), e.g., I don’t *really* care whether he falls asleep in his bed or ours but if I don’t insist he go to his right at bedtime and stay there (which instruction, oddly, he — knock wood — will follow), he will spend longer settling in *and* I will later have to move him to his.
    @Lynn I am very grateful to be a WOHM; I hope you’ll get over feeling guilty. My son is awake and *going* 13 hours a day every day and I do not have it in me to keep up.
    @Erin I’ve taken to insisting my son apologize and this seems to approximate a solution, though I’m not sure (and mine is enough older than yours that the approach, even if appropriate, may not be relevant to you.).

  61. @eeeeee, I can safely (now that we’re past it) that three was in fact delightful. We had a rather bad 2.5 year old period, and it wasn’t just in comparison that three was better, it really was nice. No, she wasn’t perfect, and that would be boring, anyway.I also really liked 4, though there were short (~2 weeks) periods of moodiness and finding offense in *anything.*
    She’s 5 and a quarter now, and utterly wonderful. So the 5 + 1 month wasn’t a huge turning point here, but an ever gradual getting more independent, more conversational, and yes, much more interested in death. Odd, but normal I hear.

  62. @Erin – mine will be four in two months and he was a hitter/screamer toddler, too. Sometimes just a barely there tap and sometimes to try and hurt me to stop me from picking him up or putting him in time out. About five months ago I started using the counting/no discussion method in I-2-3 Magic because I was stuck in endless negotiations that ended up with yelling or tears of frustration from one or both of us. Anyway, during this new process the hitting amped up (it had almost disappeared) and I finally just had a conversation with him when he wasn’t all wound up that hitting was never, ever acceptable. That he had words to use and I understood he was frustrated but hitting was never, ever acceptable. It sounds ridiculously simple – why wouldn’t I just say that about all the behavior I was trying to get rid of, right? But I don’t have a lot of hard and fast rules. So this really got his attention and any hitting got an immediate time-out, no discussion until after. It only took a couple of times and it stopped but I think a lot of my parenting “successes” are about timing. When I match my methods and goals to his ability it works, when I’m off it doesn’t.

  63. It totally gets better, but I’m 2 years off of this point with my youngest, my highest maintenance, most sensitive, still trying to crawl-up-my-nose preschooler.So I can look at my older two and know that the scale does tip at some point.
    My older two can do reasonable amounts of housework (bulleted list in each room of what tasks must be completed for the room to be “clean”), make toast, pour their own milk, get out their own craft supplies (but never seem to clean them up :P).
    They don’t need help in the bathroom other than a final hair rinse in the shower and a tooth check to see that their toothbrushing was done well.

  64. My daughter is 2 yrs old, and her constant need keeps me from being able to even imagine something different. She’s not even very good about playing by herself. We (husband or I) have to play with her or at least be her audience at all times. The the times when out of the blue, she just drops to the floor crying and rolling around? I usually laugh because WTF? Where did that even come from?

  65. @Olivia – my experience has been that my – now 3.25 y.o.- started getting better at playing by himself as his capacity for imaginative play increased. 18-32 months the best I could hope for in terms of his solitary absorption in an activity was about 15-20 minutes (and only if I played with him for 10 minutes first). My theory is that it’s the ability to engage their own imaginations that makes self-play possible, so it can only really happen when they’re older.

  66. YES. This is why we have so much beer and liquor in the house. And I’m not much of a “drinker” – but a drink every day at 5pm is a must.Anyone in the Ann Arbor area – WE SHOULD GET DRINKS. 🙂

  67. So far, as in it’s been two weeks 3.5 is much easier than 3 or 2.5 or 1.5 or 8-12 months or colic………Yes it’s all drama and I do it MYSELF and there are still epic melt-downs but far fewer than before.Fighting sleep since 2008 but once asleep she’s staying it for longer.
    And we can do more things together now, go to places or in terms of playing at home without massive struggles and we actually have fun now ( in short bursts of course, and nothing is all ” fun” for the whole outing)
    On the downside of course she’s now so big and tall that the struggle part is kind of over. Without serious injury to myself there’s no moving a stroppy screaming DD so I keep those struggles to a minimum. I just stand and get the comments and proffer tissues for the final weepy stage.
    Now bribery and corruption have begun working too, with the verbal. No that’s not great parenting but the ” don’t scream now but let’s try to get home and get your chocolate coin ( Kosher, dairy free for the allergic) ” will work. I keep that to a minimum also. But it helps when it does.
    The main huge guilt now is that as other posters have said she is ” on” thirteen hours a day, and sometimes longer, and there is the constant, constant, constant need.
    I just don’t have the energy, and have to limit going to the park/playground and other physical exertions. As I need to help her and haul her and lift her and all that. I can’t do long periods of that and she could go for an hour and a half or more.
    I now know, hah, that insight took a very long time, that if I over-do the rough play during the day I get to snapping impatience in the night-time routine later.
    Also I feel guilty about being a tired old crone mother. I am old and have aged another 25 years since having her in carbon dating. Often when she finally goes to sleep I do too and I seem to need more than she does. Ugh.
    My elderly friend made me laugh. She was watching DD and myself and said ” you forget what it’s like ” and then said she’d not volunteer for baby-sitting. It gave me the feeling it is not just me coming up short in mothering.

  68. Thank goodness for this post today. My DD is 27 months and is half awesomeness and half holy terror. The worst part is feeling like I have no idea how to handle the stubbornness and tantrums any better than we are. We try very hard to be consistent with boundaries and time-outs usually work when the situation warrants it, but the constant neediness is relentless.I could handle this all a lot better, I think, if the sleeping was netter. From 8 months, when we did Ferber sleep training, until last month, she slept like an angel. Then, last month, everything went to hell. And since both DH and I work full time and are exhausted, we haven’t figured out how to get her to sleep reliably throug the night without sleeping in her room with her.
    Has anyone got tips for sleep training a toddler??

  69. We LOVED 4. I thought it was amazing. 5 was pretty good but 4 still seemed just slightly better. It was the first time that the next year didn’t seem better than the prior. 6 has been challenging but good. Yes, they are more self-sufficient but with that comes a lot more ‘tude and whining, etc.Yes, 3 was challenging but wasn’t horrible. I think the thing that helped me get through it was that during the first year, each month was slightly better (I have twin boys – the first 6 months were so overwhelming but then each month helped after that). And then each year things got easier and easier so that helped me.
    Now at 6, my husband and I are still amazed when we get together with friends, we can have an actual, real adult conversation while the kids play. When the kids were younger, I was lucky to finish one sentence! That part is definitely nice.

  70. @Erin (sort of) on the Playful Parenting front, I have had some luck with showing my (then) toddler how one can, e.g. Stomp. Ones. Feet. On. The. Floor if one is mad (though I realize not everyone likes teaching toddlers, or anyone, such things). It’s not really playful, exactly, I mean, I’m not actually kidding (or playing around with) the thought that one might want to release one’s anger and needs to find inanimate objects on which to do so, but of course it can, to good effect, be done with some sense of drama.

  71. Thank you parents of older kids for the stories and information! These years of parent young kids are effing hard! I’ve just increased my budget for wine to help with the 2 yo whine!Things are starting to get easier, and we see a light at the end of the tunnel! It helps to see my nieces and nephew who are all 5 and can do so much by themselves. My daughter is a bit over 4 and son is 2, and we just took down the babygates everywhere but the top of the stairs!
    So why am I wishing so hard for an another? (Hubby is done, I wish we weren’t.) Sigh…
    @Parents of 5 yos and older: I keep telling my daughter that Mommy and Daddy won’t have to take a turn brushing her teeth when she turns 5. Is that reasonable?

  72. And because I’ve missed you all so much and rarely get to read all the comments, I’ve got some responses!@Laurie – The thing I’ve found about the fours is that it’s a lot better, just not consistently. Definitely two steps forward… but… one step back.
    @SarcastiCarrie – “Other days I am ready to send him to be a page in a feudal castle ‘cuz you used to be able to do that, you know.” Bwahahaha!
    @Slim – Thanks for the concrete examples! I love to hear/read them!
    @Jan – “But whoa, being able to say, on Friday night, that nobody has to be anywhere first thing Saturday, so Mommy would love to sleep until 7:30 and then have that ACTUALLY HAPPEN … that’s pretty priceless. :)” That is Awesome!
    @Charisse – “Full on sh*tfit tantrums became coherent shrieking around 3, then gawdawful whining around 4, and shrieking was only for tired/hungry situations.” That is so accurate! The rest of what you said must be true then! I always can handle things a lot better when I know what to expect, so thanks!
    @RudyinParis – “The waitress looked me straight in the eye and said, “Sometimes it makes you a better mother.” There was no judgement. She got a big tip.” AMEN!!!
    @Leah – Happy birthday to your youngest! Also, you totally are supposed to drink! See @Rudyinparis’ comment and @Johanna’s comment. I wrote a whole post about it once. 😉
    @mom2boy – What you said, exactly! That is how we’ve dealt with similar! OMG, the spitting phase was the worst! That was when I actually sent her to her room.

  73. @themilliner, I’m pretty sure a combination of hedra’s advice to get on the same side with her when we could, together with a lot of “I can’t hear you when you shout” and “hey, that was a useful way to say that, thank you” when she didn’t shout…and then eventually she got used to being bigger and it improved. But my memory is a little fuzzy. 😉

  74. I will never, ever forget the first time the kidlet and I came home late and she did her usual late-night routine of flopping on the couch and having to be micromanaged through every step of the bedtime routine, and I was able to say, “Well, I’ll kiss you now, then, and you can put yourself to bed, because I’m going to sleep.” (She was maybe nine? ten? And what she did was leap up and run for the bedroom, because she wanted that kiss in the usual bedtime place and not fully dressed on the couch!)It’s a great moment when you can hand off to the kid both a choice and the consequences of that choice.

  75. We’re at 3 years + 1 month. Do I get a prize for this age? Pretty please, with a cherry on top?I love that he can express need, potty trained really easily (after some failed attempts), and is usually a good kid. The whining can definitely get on mommy’s.last.nerve.
    We’re camping next week and I’m totally psyched because I think he’s going to love it. And I’m glad we didn’t do it when he was a baby or a toddler- chasing that around a campground would have sent me over the edge.
    And despite sounding like I have it easy, I feel that I wouldn’t be able to handle another one (never mind that I’d have to find a $$ tree to support another one). So I’m still in the one-and-done camp.

  76. @the milliner. We as in the parents and the pre-school had success with DD and stopping her screaming. She did a lot of that and never more so than around her third birthday and with her very loud voice it basically meant misery several times a day.Basically we said to her that we could not hear her if she screamed. That we’d listen if she talked and happily so.
    Initially that did nothing at all and she’d scream and scream and then cry. Then we’d hand her a tissue and wipe her eyes. As learned from the paediatric dentist.
    Then gradually she cried and then talked at the end and we’d thank her.
    Soon she’d say ” I am CRYING! while waving a tissue” which was ever so fake so we’d have to talk to her I suppose but she’s been talking since.
    It helped a lot also to give her an ” out” from major tantrums and screaming fits. She can snap out of them by herself. Amazingly the other children in the Montessori class just shrug her moodiness off.
    If we tell her off she cries loudly like she’s been hit or something. It’s a protest and a form of hitting back.
    One major drawback of 3.5 compared to 3 for her is that now she won’t hold hands while walking at all and will run away from us if she can. Including into the road. Very scary. But in most other ways 3 was worse.
    So it’s back to the back-pack with a lead attached.

  77. Thank you for this post! I have a four year old and a six month old, both of whom are basically delightful most of the time, but last night I had to take a deep breath and give myself the “You can do this. Think about mothers living through war and famine with their kids. Think about being a broke single mother. You can make it through this moment of temporary lousiness” pep talk. I did make it through the moment but am seriously looking forward to the time when I don’t have to constantly strategize about how to get my four year old to cooperate, but can just say, “time to put on shoes” without there being a 20% chance that it will evoke some sort of drama or another. Since he is mostly a thoughtful, smart kid, I see the light of the tunnel– of course, that’ll be about the time things really start getting interesting with the baby :-)@Erin, I hear you on everything. For us, I think it was just persistence– constantly communicating the message that his feelings are heard and respected, but that hitting/throwing/kicking is never acceptable. My four year old’s temper still gets the better of him sometimes (esp. when he’s tired or hungry, and keeping on top of that has helped). The good news is that at four you can have conversations at other times about his behavior (as you mentioned) and sometimes it sinks in. My kid loves signs/writing/drawing pictures, so we wrote down all the things he can do to express his anger other than hit/kick/scream and put it on his door. We also wrote a letter to his preschool teacher about it (for him, not really for her). I’m amazed how much it helped take the edge off.
    Another thing that really helped was more rough-housing a la “Playful Parenting”. I realized that I have been spending so little 1-1 time with my son due to the baby; so I carved out play-fighting/wrestling time with my son every night before story and bed, or, if we have time, before leaving for school. He *loves* it– it’s a great positive release and his behavior during the day has ratcheted down a notch.

  78. My darling (most days) 8 yr old daughter started being a lot of fun right around age 5. I don’t remember exactly when it happened because I was in the middle of toddler craptasticness with her little brother, who was 2.Now little brother is 5 yrs and 2 weeks and he is also starting to be a delight. He doesn’t pick battles with me as often as his sister does. If we could just get him to tell us when he pees his pants instead of hiding it and lying about it, he would be a perfect model child.

  79. Oh, god, so much better. The SLEEP! It nearly killed me, and it’s a big reason we stuck with only one (“As God is my witness, I will not be 47 years old and getting up multiple times a night, so help me God.”)Now, we all sleep through the night, 90% of the time. Amen.
    And: Fun! This morning, the kid peeked in at 7 to say good morning, went into the bathroom, peed, flushed (!), washed his hands (!!), then climbed up on our bed for a little snuggling and conversation about Jedis.
    They’re still snuggly, still pick-uppable, still half-believing in magic – and you can have real conversations, and get each other’s jokes. You can play Monopoly together (with a little math help). You can go for hikes that are more than a half mile long. You can explain why sunscreen is necessary even though it’s a pain to put on, and he’ll understand (despite whining a bit). You can drop them with an auntie for 2 days and know they’ll do fine, avoid starvation/meltdown/certain death, and have a ton of fun.
    You start wanting time to slow down so it can be like this for a long time.

  80. Everybody who’s struggling — a warm friendly IT GETS BETTER from this direction too. Mine is now 7, and in the background I hear her giggling as she beats her dad at baseball Wii.But my WORD the tantrums, I remember the tantrums, and how hard those were. Occasionally there’s still a little meltdown, or a heavy-duty Parenting Moment occurs when I’m not feeling up to dealing with it. But now – she takes showers by herself, wants to dress herself (sometimes with fascinating color/pattern combos, but hey) and is this interesting, interested person who observed to me recently, “Mama, I love my life.”
    As far as the baby/toddler stage — I miss certain moments of that time, but I don’t miss the long days and nights. I hope it doesn’t irritate anyone in the throes of the worst of it when I say that in retrospect, it seems to have gone quickly — I do remember how long it seemed at the time, and that she would NEVER sleep thru the night/be potty trained/stop tantruming or whatever the difficult phase of that moment is. But it does, it does, it DOES get better.

  81. Thanks @Wilhelmina. You’re giving me hope for 3.5! DS already occasionally dashes into the parking lot. Mostly I can catch him in time or get him to stop before getting to the edge of the entrance. We’re working hard on ‘red light, green light’ and looking both ways before crossing.

  82. My hubby is in charge of bedtime for the 2.5 yr old (I’m working on a paper so I go sit and type and don’t have to answer cries). He wants to know when the “I need this item and this item and this item and this item and the blanket has to be just so” stage is over.

  83. I’ve got one of each – 5.5yr old son and 2.5yr old daughter. Which is a good thing, because I can look at my son when my daughter is driving me mental and know that it does get easier! My daughter is SO FULL ON! I thought girls were supposed to be easier at this age. Not my girl.I’m not breastfeeding anymore, so I can have a drink. And truly, some days all it takes is one little drink to take the edge off and I can calmly cope with all her neediness.
    Other days, as soon as my husband gets home from work I run screaming into the street! No, not really, but I do feel like it. When she is really painful in the evenings I put her in the bath, get a magazine and sit in the bathroom with her until the water goes cold – she is happy and I get to just sit for a little while. Water seems to be like magic on a grumpy toddler.
    I avoid places where I can’t be sure she wil be safe or its just too hard – she gets into everything and runs off, so if I am going to spend the entire time stressing I just stay home. Everybody is more relaxed that way and I know that in a year or so I will be able to do those things again. Has saved me heaps of money too as shopping for things like clothes is just not possible!
    Erin – my son went through a throwing stage, and my daughter is in the thick of it now. It passed. I dealt with it by calmly stating that it wasn’t acceptable and that whatever was thrown went “up” where they can’t get it with a “if you are going to throw your toys, you can’t have them”. Once they calmed down, then I’d return the toy.

  84. I guess we’re in a good phase, but I’m really enjoying 2-1/2 and 5-1/2. The younger can navigate stairs by herself without falling on her head, they play together nicely (mostly), and the older can do a lot of things for himself.The 12-month and younger age was harder for me than toddler years, but that’s probably because my kids (mostly the first one) were really challenging babies. And non-sleepers. Now that both sleep through the night the majority of the time, the rest seems like cake to me!

  85. Not so much an it gets better for the toddler/preschooler set, but just wanted to put out there that my kiddo is 3.5 and I am enjoying the HELL out of this stage. So if you are dealing with a difficult babyhood/infancy, take heart–it may get better sooner. I think a ton just depends on your personality and your kid’s personality.

  86. Oh, and now when we’re at the beach, I even get a moment or two to page through a book for five minutes. That’s pretty sweet.

  87. Being that I have a turning-six-tomorrow son and a she-will-probably-never-be-six daughter in the throes of toddlerdom, I concur, wholeheartedly with your assessment, Moxie. My son is a breeze, my daughter is WORK. She’s a sweet 21-month-old snuggle lover, and her temperament and energy are waaaaaay easier than her brother’s.Brother had DH and I running for our lives for the first four years of his life, but now, compared to his caveperson sister, he takes the cake on the ease of the day. And honestly, even when brother is a pain in my (that), I still marvel at the fact that he DOES get himself a snack, monitor his bladder/thirst/hunger status, get his toys out to play, use manners without constant prompting, etc.
    And my awe in those moments is only increased when his sister walks in, a hot mess, pointing at something and muttering an long chorus of whining and screaming mixed with “dat, dAt, DAT!”
    And even though the cling factor is extreme, there are still times when big brother is talking back and being all sass that I cherish my toddler who still sits on my lap with her blankies and snuggles every day.

  88. I couldn’t agree more! Life is sooo much easier now that my son is 4 1/2. And the parent amnesia has set in for his toddlerhood and baby days too, sadly. As much as they are developing every day into brand new territory, we are too, as parents and we need to be refreshed and ready. I was thinking that if we had a second child we might not be able to fully appreciate the more rational (slightly!) thinking and independence that our 4 year old has developed. Ride the wild waves my friend used to say. Very little we can truly control. I try to enjoy all of it as much as possible, even the dark times and tantrums. We can’t have one without the other.

  89. I’m new here and just want to say that this site is saving my sanity right now. I have a 2 year old and a 4 month old, which probably explains the sentence preceding. Moxie, how do I email you? My computer is being a toddler, and every time I click the “email me” link, I get an error message.

  90. I have a (2weeks away from)6, (2days away from)2, and a baby due in February… this shit will not end til 2017… is that what you’re telling me? WAHHHHHHNo, with the oldest she was not a whiny toddler. The almost 2 year old is typical whiny screamy kid, and I think it’s because she decided not to talk until now. The lack of language has made her most frustrated.
    2017 cannot get here soon enough!

  91. When my daughter was 9 I realized I had finally (almost) gotten my life back. All she needs is a driver, a soundboard, and a support system. It’s great. Oh yeah, I make sandwiches too.

  92. Oh man did the toddler phases whoop my butt. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed my kids at that age, but DAMN, was it hard. So much work. Some days I would just cry with frustration. I suppose that’s why nature makes toddlers so freaking adorable and hilarious – the species might not advance otherwise… ;)But I’m here to echo Moxie. IT DOES GET EASIER. I promise. My kids are 9 and 12, and while were already dealing with middle-schooler hormonal changes (!), I can honestly say parenting is SO much more rewarding for me as my kids grow.
    Aside from the obvious independence when it comes to personal care (yes, it IS awesome not to think about anyone else’s poop), there’s another set of hands to do chores, and depending on where you live and your comfort level, run errands. But best of all are the relationships – ours with them and theirs with each other. We all have personalities from the get-go, but I have found, at least, that as my kids’ identities become more nuanced, I enjoy their company more and more. Plainly put, they’re interesting people. They have social consciences, wicked senses of humor, developed interests and talents, and as the rest of us do, weaknesses. They are all-around awesome people I get to share my life with.
    For the record, however, parenting is never without it’s challenges; they just change over time. And, yes, just like during toddlerhood, as soon as you hit your parenting stride in how to deal with the challenge-du-jour, those kooky little buggers move on to a new challenge and you’re back to the feeling-your-way through phase. They keep us on our toes, don’t they?

  93. My oldest is 5.5 and it was gradual but now I realize not only is she not needy–she’s USEFUL! We have a newborn and she genuinely helps! And this morning I gave her a list of stuff to pack for vacation and she did it independently and checked everything off. She has been a pretty mellow kid overall but the toddler neediness got OLD. Five is wonderful (and four was good too). If you’ve got a 2-4 year old I can say that I worked pretty hard to “train” her to help in the kitchen, with self care, with chores and it seemed ridiculous because everything would have been so much quicker to do myself but it has paid off in that she can do a lot of things by herself (like make a sandwich or get a drink etc)

  94. I don’t know about this. I have one that will gladly do the things you ask and loves to clean his room. I have one that can’t remember something you tell him every day (“Don’t pull on that cord! You’re going to break the blinds!” “I’m sorry, Mom. I forgot.”) And forget sending him off to do brush his teeth…you’ll see him in an hour or so.And nighttime with both of them is tough to negotiate. Not to mention the one who copes well with tasks hates transitions and melts down frequently when he doesn’t like something. So they both have their issues. They were not easy babies either…everyone said put them on a schedule but they were completely different in appetites and sleep schedules.
    So my twins will be 7 in December. When again are they going to be a bit more self-sufficient? Or is this the twin dynamic of being needy gets you more attention than your brother? Because although it did get easier around 5 in some ways, my kids are not like you describe yours, Moxie!

  95. @Jennifer – I just had a 2yr old and a 4 mos old… now that DD2 is older and more interactive it is much much better! I think it started around 8 mos – DD1 could interact with DD2, mostly by making raspberries. Of course, now I have to deal with DD1 taking toys away from DD2, but – this, too, shall pass…

  96. “I know I used to have kids this age, but HOW did I do this??”Mine will be 4 and 2 in October, and I had the same thought after visiting a friend of mine who has a 23-month-old and a newborn – even though that was us only 2 short years ago, I’ve forgotten a lot of the bad parts I guess. Because when I look at the sleepless chaos and neverending diapering I ask myself how the hell did we ever survive that?
    Looking forward with much anticipation to November 2014 when my youngest will be 5 years, 1 month. I’m mentally planning a family trip somewhere fabulous, requiring passports. 😉

  97. Wow, what a great discussion! Enjoyed, empathized and laughed with everyone’s comments. DS is 5 years and one month currently and I’m waiting for the angel to appear! He is a wild, talkative, negotiating, highly sensitive (ie volatile) machine who can put me over the edge in minutes. He’s been a high needs creature since he was 2 weeks old. But I do these days marvel at how he can get dressed, gather up his stuff, follow his body signs, etc. As well, I marvel at how he can be reduced to tears by another child’s flippant remark, how he is constantly checking out the fairness of every decision twhere it involves other kids), how he can be rude one minute and asking for a hug the next!My real reason for posting is I struggle with the guilt I have in parenting an only child who I co-Parent with his father. That means I only have him 50 percent of the time which I still after 2 plus years find hard. So when DS drives me over the edge with his 5 year old behaviour, I feel guilty for these probably normal feelings but saddened that I can’t be the easy going relaxed mother I want to be. Hell, he is only with half the week – surely I can get it together and not get momentarily frustrated or irritated by his five-year-old behaviour? You’d think.

  98. “It gets better”… is not so comforting for those of us just entering toddlerhood… it’s reminding me that I’ve only served 1 year of a 5 year sentence and judging by the comments things are going to be a chaotic rollercoaster for another 4 years.

  99. HA just have to share this cute story about my friend’s 5 year old son (he turned 5 in May). We went to the beach- it was myself, my 9 month old, my friend, her 2 year old, and her 5 year old. The 5 year old pushed the 2 year old down into the water. We were like “NOOOO AGGHHH” and ran to get him. The 2 year old was fine, a little upset, but fine. The 5 year old was all hyped up “Sorry, sorry everyone, my fault. That was my fault.” I was laughing so hard!

  100. Oh so timely. For the past few months, my just turned 4 year old and my 20 month old have been in competition for ME. If one of them is sitting in my lap, the other HAS to climb on. And if the 20 month old in is her highchair and the 4 year old sits in my lap, she goes ape shit!!!! And forget about me walking to another room….they both either follow me or start crying…even if they can still see me. Seriously, can I just pee in peace???The constant NEED of both of them is exhausting. Poor hubby is getting no attention b/c i just have nothing left at the end of the day. I am also struggling with the repetition that you have to have with a 3-4 year old. The same rules repeated over and over and over and over and over and over. My motto is….it’s just another GroundHog’s Day.
    Give me an infant and I am happy as can be. Once they start talking and pushing back, I lose my shit more than I’d like to admit.
    What time are we drinking? I’ll buy the first round!!!

  101. Nice to know it gets even better at five, because I’ve been thinking four is pretty darn sweet. My twin boys got easier at 3.5, sort of, except for the drama of starting daycare, but minus the drama of a lot of travelling about with Daddy for work (or having Daddy away travelling for work). Four, and sunny weather, has really helped. Except for those lousy recent days when one started *biting* out of anger. Wtf? I thought he was supposed to do that at 2?! Any technique I can think of to deal with it is geared towards younger kids, and I can’t find my Playful Parenting book! Oh well, that (I *really* hope was a short phase).@ Mo, I guess I’ll see if my guys dip down at 5!

  102. This is so timely you wouldn’t believe it. My son was being VERY “two” today (and he’s only just 23 months) and I was feeling overwhelmed and like a terrible mother. Just reading your post made me tear up with relief. Can’t wait to read the comments. Thank you.

  103. “Other days I am ready to send him to be a page in a feudal castle ‘cuz you used to be able to do that, you know.”LOVE THIS!! Thanks for the laugh!

  104. It’s good to know things get better and easier because it makes me look forward to “what’s next.”One was better than newborn (phew, he didn’t die of SIDS). Two was better than one (oh my gosh he’s actually sleeping through the night frequently and we’re done nursing). Three is better than two (he can tell me what he wants AND he makes me laugh and wants to kiss me all the time.)
    So I’m trying to keep that in mind but also stay in the moment and be present because I feel like sometimes I’m wishing that things would get easier and then realize that means I’m wishing away this time with him that I’ll never get back.
    My mantra these days is, “it’s the journey not the destination.”
    Not trying to sound “holier than thou” trying to offer a coping mechanism for this whining, screaming, tantrum phase that can just wear you out.

  105. Oh my. When my three-year old was born, I figured this stage would last about 2 years. Then people were telling me four years. Now you’re saying five?!? Can we pin this down because, when she’s five, I don’t want to be hearing “seven”.My sainted mother raised 9 kids. At one point she had five children under the age of 6 and, beyond a paycheck, you know dad was no help. And knowing that, I still can’t help sometimes wondering at my neighbors who handle two or three.

  106. YES. My kids are 2 and 6, and while I will say up front that the challenges just change and do not actually decrease with age (and I fully expect that the adolescence of at least the older kid will involve extravagant drama and misery for everyone), I SO much prefer the challenges involved in parenting kids over 5. They’re much more interesting, and less brain-and-soul-killing. I did appreciate the second kid’s baby phase, because it was so simple to solve her problems (insert boob here), but that’s no longer the case, and now I’m really, really ready to get past this whole toddler thing.

  107. I came upon your website because of a much older post on pregnancy and depression but then navigated to this page (still sobbing loudly kleenex in hand) and I just burst out laughing .. toddlers .. i have one (2.5) and this is so right on. Thanks for bringing a smile on my face.

  108. ahhh, the commiseration. Thanks to all! with a 4.33 and a 2.33 and most of the neighborhood kids over on one day or another, all I can say is Economy of Scale. If ONE is driving you nuts, it’s because ONE doesn’t have a TWO (or more) to drive nuts. If it’s just me and mine, they are constantly after me for attention, or playing with each other until they need me to sort out a toy dispute. If there is even one more neighborhood kid, they can play for hours with minimal interruption, especially if I’m not hanging over them in obvious evidence (I can’t TELL you how much cleaning gets done when neighbor kids are over…lets me stay out of their hair so that they stay out of mine, but still affords me the opportunity to intervene quickly in the event of physical danger).Also, another SAH neighbor and I have worked out a lovely arrangement where the kids swap houses every other day…they’re all here one day, all there the next. A day of Utter Pandemonium followed by a day of Sweet Blissful Silence. I highly recommend it.
    I’m very intrigued by this 5-and-1 idea, though. 4.33 is very helpful, gets herself (and sometimes 2.33) dressed, is potty independent, and even helps keep her room clean. MAN, though, the whinies, the debates, and the SCREAMING if I recognize that she’s too tired to function in polite society. Can’t WAIT for that to be done. 2.33 is fun, adorable, loves to help clean up, and is a potty training champ. The hugs are PRICELESS. The tantrums SUCK. Constant, mindless, droning noise–verbal skills are coming in, I recognize that, but do we have to leave the tap of noise running for the words to come in sooner? Seriously. It’s like having my head stuck in a beehive. And the same tumble force that he can walk away from without a whimper suddenly becomes DEFCON 5 if he knows I’m within booboo kissing range? Yeah. Can’t WAIT.

  109. i know i am late here on this, but have been mostly out of the blog loop for the last month or two. congrats on your move.as always, i find what i need here, moxie. this morning i have been on the verge of tears because i feel so defeated with my just turned 4 yo daughter. nothing new. she has always been a high need child. very temperamental, moody. she talks constantly, argues about as much as she talks, has to be next to me at all times. i try so hard to appropriately encourage her to be independent, but she fights it. it drains me.
    she’s always been a pretty poor sleeper, which i think explains some of her moodiness, but i can’t force her to sleep enough (actually i found your site initially when looking for sleep 411 when she was 9 months).
    pretty much from the time she wakes up she is demanding and arguing. i do okay a lot of the time, but when i’m tired or premenstrual or whatever, i find it difficult to respond to her in ways that i think are appropriate (not abusive, just not how i like). the other day right at waking she woke me up and demanded i go to the bathroom with her. we got into an argument about it and she peed on the floor. this morning the same thing started and i got up and went with her, which made me feel angry and bitter because i don’t want to feed into that yet i figured i’d be angrier if she had another accident on the floor. i semi jokingly will tell people she holds me hostage a lot of the time.
    food, same stuff.
    the hardest part is that i want my daughter to grow up to be a confident happy person and i believe so much of these interactions have an impact on that. while i very generally don’t believe that there are any good or bad traits or temperaments, i will say that there are some that are more difficult to respond to. my son (age 2) is a lot easier. he has been from the start. my daughter has always been a challenge. but she is also bright, funny, creative, sensitive and loving. i want to nurture these qualities. i also want to nurture her stubborness as assertive, her demanding as standing up for herself…but in a way that is appropriate and establishes good boundaries.
    blah blah blah.
    thanks for the post. thanks for providing a safe place to vomit out with no censor. just seeing that others have made it through these days helps.

  110. (clicked through from phdinparenting)Jan wrote:
    Plus anybody still in the throes of sleep yuck should know that my parenting day pretty much ends at 8 pm when I tell my older child that she may read until 8:15 and needs to have her light out by 8:30.
    O to dream. Your youngest is 5.5? So one more, three more, and FIVE MORE YEARS until my preschooler, toddler, and baby respectively go to bed independently? *head-desk*

  111. I admire your kids’ independence despite their age. In your case, I think you should enroll them on classes such as gymnastics for toddlers, swimming or rock climbing at least every weekend. They’ll meet friends and get them physically active.

  112. Tak bywa chociaz wymagane istnieje jednak owo istotne minimum, czyli majatek pieniedzy na najem lokalu, na komputerowy oprzyrzadowanie, czy programy zapobiegajacego dane. W wielu pismach pozadanych sie biznesem, azali ulatwiajacych start jest oznajmione, iz utrzymywac sie pozyczke w celu mlodej spolki nie istnieje bez trudnosci.Na bazaru tym wyczekuje na nas choc kilkaset firm. Posrod nich przyuwazymy w podobny sposob te, jakie chca pozbawic niewlasnych jegomosciow poprzedniego grosza, kiedy zas takie, jakiego planuja w pelni dopuszczalnego warunki.
    Chwilowka, debet za pomoca Siec jednakowoz debet potajemna?
    Po kiego chuja? Bo jest owo po prostu niepoplatnego – wysoce taniej uzyskamy kredyt gotowkowy, karte kredytowa badz zakres odnawialny na koncie.
    We wrzesniu – co takze prostego oraz monitorowane od czasu wielu lat – po pozyczki chetniej zapozyczaja figury nienamacalnego prowadzace aktywnosc nieekonomiczna – przydaje.
    http://cdangustia.com/forums/cash-loans-inside-english-natsnqorg
    http://prospectivemetaanalysis.org/content/realsurf_as_australia%27erinarians_leading_on_line_dunes_neighborhood_considering_that_the_ear

  113. Nie dosc, iz w tym wypadku niepozytywne sa ktorakolwiek dokumenty jednakowoz zaswiadczenia, owo coraz kredyt istnieje wyplacana w szwungu kilku pory.Nadrzedny spadek tej ustawy trajkota, iz jednoroczne oprocentowanie dlugow nie moze przekraczac czterokrotnej wysokosci stopy lombardowej, precyzowanej za sprawa NBP.
    A to wprost przeciwnie przewazajace kampanie.
    Wierzytelnosci pozabankowe sposrod RRSO mniej wiecej 500 – 1000% (!) owo najdrozsza postepowanie uzyczenia pieniedzy.
    Biorac chwilowke negujmy z wszystkiego modelu „nadprogramow” badz dodatkow. Warto takze zanim podpisaniem umowy orzec, jednakowoz tak aby na chyba ich w owa strone nie ma.
    http://mail.lifebalancepress.com/dharmawisdom/discussion/vipassana-sitting-groups-around-world/find-local-sitting-group-or-post-25140
    http://sosnovka.su/node/482247

  114. Dlatego ze w esencji w spolki pozabankowej pozyczke przypadkiem uzyskac absolutnie jederman, tudziez tedy chociazby bezrobotny, kto w za posrednictwem minionego lata bez przeznaczenia poszukiwalby konkurencji czy tez matka sam wychowujaca troje dzieci.Jednakze pies z kulawa noga nas do zawleczenia wierzytelnosci nie zobowiazuje.
    Ostateczny zapis tej regulacji prawi, iz jednoletniego oprocentowanie kredytow nie przypadkiem naruszac czterokrotnej wysokosci stopy lombardowej, wskazanej za sprawa NBP.
    Tu zadnej interlokucji znajdowac sie nie przypadkiem – zadluzenie gotowkowy istnieje tansza tezyzna wierzytelnosci, zas roznosc w wyplacie jest explicite koszmarna.
    Beda owo tymczasem „wyschnietego” kwocie, a nim nabraniem pozyczki wskazane jest podobnie zapoznac sie sposrod wypowiedziami tych, jacy nuze uzyliby sposrod klasycznej podazy.
    pożyczki bez bik

  115. Sa w zyciu takie chwile, w ktorych pieniedzy po prostu teskni oraz nalezy szamie wynajac.Nie odbiera jednakze w transformacyj nizszego oprocentowania, oraz czestokroc nie ma i uprawnienia odwolac sposrod gotowkowej odmiany wierzytelnosci a wybitnie bliskiej obslugi domowej.
    Siegniecie az do rychlych wierzytelnosci pozabankowych, ktore sa najlatwiejszym natomiast konkretnie dostatnim pochodzeniem gotowki (spolki pozyczkowe w malowartosciowy modus nie doswiadczaja swoich petentow) wrozy nadciagajaca katastrofe.
    Okazala luksus, wysokie ceny
    Zdradza sie wprawdzie, ze w firmach pozyczkowych caloksztalt jest mozliwe!
    kredyty chwilówki

  116. Niewiasta wprowadzi na zeszyt, jutro wyrownam – Obecnie aktualnie o mnostwo mniej raz za razem matce okazje podsluchac to stwierdzenie w marketach, mimo to w w oddaleniu mniej niewielorakich zaulkach Jezyk polski w pozniejszym szeregu jeszcze mozliwe istnieje zdanie owo podsluchac.Z jakiej przyczyny stad nie zaimplementowac ich w rutynie natomiast bodaj nie poczestowac sie zmienic swojego istnienia?
    Niepewnym z nich istnieje „taniosc” wszystkiego co internetowe, co chyba chociazby po wzrastajacej slawy sprawunkow w sieci oraz butikow internetowych.
    Owe debety maja owo az do se, iz ich oprocentowanie istnieje nadzwyczaj karczemne, tudziez obok to dowolni stekaja, iz sa one strasznie bliskiego.
    Nastepny pozostaje nam nuze wylacznie wyczekiwanie na inwestorow i wspolbrzmienie na ich zagadnienia.
    pożyczki bez bik
    http://www.maluzoca.com.br/depoimentos/czynne-selekcjonujemy-pozyczke-pozabankowa

  117. Jednym sposrod nich jest „taniosc” wszystkiego co internetowe, co widac chocby po narastajacej wzietosci sprawunkow w sieci tudziez butikow internetowych.Kredytobiorca, kto splaca wieksza akt kredytu, byc moze naplynac sposrod regresem do wtorego kredytobiorcy
    ZAs jaki zaliczy, nie nie ulega kwestii, skoro wystawiany w danym momencie katownik faceta istnieje pilnie strzezona zagadka bankow.
    Natomiast, aczkolwiek wiekszosc z nich ano bedzie tansza niz sztampowe wierzytelnosci, nie kazdego sa gwoli kredytobiorcow potrzebnego.
    W skutku tego typu debet pozabankowy wykonuje predyspozycja ustawy antylichwiarskiej, jednak w rzeczywistosci probuje nas np. 300% w miary roku.
    kredyty chwilówki
    http://www.opensource4arab.com/node/59474

  118. Ich wytwory w przecietnym przypadku pozyczkami osobistymi nie sa.Na reklame mozna sie natknac, przechodzac mimo komorki bankowej – plakaty reklamujace “bezproblemowa pozyczke” dyndaja w witrynach.
    Na arche kredyt gotowkowy, alias artykul bankowy w celu tych, jacy pieniedzy postuluja „na fakultatywny final”. Pozyczka gotowkowy osiagnac wolno lecz wciaz oraz zaledwie w banku, co postepuje go niejakim z bezpieczniejszych poklosi pozyczkowych.
    Gdy uniwersalnie nie ulega watpliwosci, pozyczkobiorcy wymiotuja atencje przede wszelkim na oprocentowanie chwilowki.
    Spaceruja sposrod glowa w kopciach, nie jaznia o przyszlosci, natomiast zyja terazniejszoscia.
    pożyczka
    http://www.send-foods.com/node/47296

  119. Jest lecz niejaki powiklanie – wypada sie spieszyc sie, bo banki powoli wycofuja rychle kredyty ze swoich podazy.Co czeka pania Katarzyne po rozwodzie? Co stanie sie ze wraz splacanym dlugiem?
    ZAs jednakze jest kilka przetestowanych rodzajow, by wysokie koszty chwilowek aczkolwiek cokolwiek zredukowac.
    Najwazniejszym ilorazem, na jaki powinnismy podarowac atencje jest RRSO, alias faktycznego oprocentowanie wierzytelnosci, po wlaczeniu wszystkich jej wydatkow.
    O dlugach nieintymnych slyszalo jednakze czegokolwiek, co w kontekscie uprzedniego akapitu prawdopodobnie iles zadziwiac. Dlaczego? Byc byc moze w zwiazku z tym, ze wierzytelnosci niekonfidencjonalnego owo swego gatunku wiadomosc i reflektuja coraz okresu, by niewzruszony sie nagminnego.
    kredyty chwilówki
    http://epitesz-muszakiellenor.hu/uih-yn-gishuun-nyamzhavyn-batbayar

  120. Niemniej jednak wypada pomniec, iz wprawdzie w Necie w ogolnosci jest niedrogo, to na bazarze tym trzeba bardzo, ale to niezmiernie, starac sie.Nie postuluja stwierdzenia przedsiebiorcy w Biurze Informacji Kredytowej.
    Dlugi finansowe nie sa w tym momencie podobnie nie inaczej przyciagajace z jeszcze niedrugiego oskarzyciela – banki znaczaco powiekszylyby marze.
    Gwoli wielu z nas nie ma w nastepstwie tego wiekszego pojecia, iz o pozyczka jest coraz to trudniej. Grunt izby gdzies wydzierzawic pieniadze – kiedy nie w banku, owo w parabanku.
    ORAZ to raz za razem prosto ponizej nasze wejscie (gotowizne daje pracownik spolce pozyczkowej)!
    chwilówki bez bik
    http://sauna.no/node/42012

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