Impromptu topic: Pets and risk

Yesterday I had to take Alex (the cat) back to the vet. He'd been in last Friday and was on antibiotics for crystals in his urinary tract, but after an initial rally over the weekend was fading fast. He needed sedation and an emergency catherterization procedure, and I had to leave him there overnight. (I'm also going on a last-minute work trip today and won't be back for a few days, so he's staying at the animal hospital.)

My kids were with their dad when it all happened, so I had to explain the situation later. That Alex was really, really sick. That he had to have a procedure that *might* save him, but might not. And that it was possible that he wasn't going to make it through the procedure.

My instinct is always to be truthful and straightforward with my kids. But also to prioritize for them, since they don't know the relative risks and probabilities. So I told my son that Alex was very sick, but emphasized that the procedure was probably going to save him. I told him there was a chance it might not, but tries to stick with the odds.

I want him to feel like people with knowledge and practice and good effort are doing everything they can to help Alex, so he doesn't need to worry. But that even when we do everything we can, sometimes bad things happen, and we can get through them.

I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by being this honest. But I don't want him to feel like I hide things from him. I heard him trying to explain things to Blossom, our other cat, again this morning (she's really freaked out that Alex is gone, and that he was so sick and then he didn't come back with me).

What do you think? Am I being too adult for an 8-year-old (a precocious one, granted)? His younger brother spent the night at their dad's, so I didn't mention anything about Alex to him yet.

Somehow it seems like this would be easier if I weren't getting on a plane today. But maybe my son's being with his dad having fun all weekend and not in our Alex-free apartment is going to help him not worry.

Thoughts?

44 thoughts on “Impromptu topic: Pets and risk”

  1. To me, eight seems more than old enough, but that’s probably because I had to do the same for my oldest when he was not quite 3. He needed to know where the cat was, so I explained about what we were hoping the vet could do and that it might not work. If there’s a chance things could be really bad, I think it’s unfair not to give a child a small heads-up.I don’t know what the right age is to explain euthenasia,though. I just went with, “Dr X couldn’t make her better.”

  2. We have many animals, so we’ve dealt with this a couple times. Our kids are much younger (1 and 3), though, I imagine it’s more complicated with older kids.We also think that honesty is best, and I think you handled it fine. Last December, my wife’s horse that she’d had for 9 years suddenly got sick and died. We explained to our 3yo daughter what happened, and brought her outside to see him and say goodbye. She saw how upset and sad we were, too. She worked through it by talking about it, which was hard on my wife and I because she would randomly spurt out “Are you sad because Leaps is dead?”, which was like a punch in the gut every time she did it. She pretended to “be dead” a few times, and we didn’t overract, and that phase passed too.
    Recently one of our older dogs became very ill, he spent a couple nights in a hospital and we weren’t sure he was going to make it. My wife was out of town and I brought the kids to the vet to visit him. I told her (the 1yo obviously had no idea) that Pepper was very sick and the doctors were trying to make him better – I can’t remember if we talked about whether he might not make it. In the end he pulled through.
    Anyway, just wanted to say that we’ve handled death of pets with honesty and it’s worked out fine. I think hiding it or glossing over it would make it worse.

  3. Hi, Moxie,My daughter is just three and I take the same approach with her as you did with your son. They need us to be honest with them, but there’s a fine line between being honest and scaring the heck out of them. I think you handled it well. I think honesty fosters trust and that is of utmost importance.

  4. When my kids were 3.5 and 1.5 our dog bit my MIL and we decided he would have to be put down. He was getting on ( 10 years old), but more importatly he had already tried bitting a neighbour after maanging to squeezoe out of the gate as I was openning it. he was dangerous. If it hadn’t been my MIL, it would have been one of my offspring. Anyway, we weren’t truthful about him to the kids. We told them we had had to send him a way to a farm for the bitting but he would be happy there, etc etc. I think this explanation was approriate for kids that age. Any older, like now ( 3.5, 5.5) I wouldn’t hesitate telling them the truth. Perhaps with a watered down explanation, but not an out and out lie like the one we opted for 2 years ago. Kids can handle things like illness, death and perhaps it is good practise with an animal.

  5. This doesn’t really answer your question, but when my BIL and SIL’s cat passed on, they talked to their then-two-year-old about the cycle of life, how decay happens and creates new life. And then he promptly told his classmates that the cat turned into a worm, which cracked me up.I’m also a fan of honest but prioritizing. Bad stuff happens, and kids need to be present with that as well, but at their level.

  6. Sounds to me like to handled it well, Moxie.If your kid is a worrier, then maybe less information is better. If your kid is very curious, perhaps more details are better.
    One of our cats died when my daughter was almost 2.5 years old. She wasn’t upset, just wondered, “Where did he go?” That was the hardest part, explaining where the cat was. She seemed to understand “dead” (as in, not moving or breathing anymore) so we said the vet took care of the cat after he died.

  7. I’m also in favour of honesty, especially around death and serious illness. Maybe not so much about suffering or the agony of decision making – I would never involve a young child in a medical decision – but just the simple bare-bones facts, yes.I think the important thing is to stay plugged into the way his fears may or may not express themselves over the weekend and going forward.
    When my son was just barely 3 we went to a funeral and he seemed to take it all just fine. (Not anyone close to him.)
    But about three weeks later we were watching a YouTube video of Andrea Bocelli singing Elmo to sleep and he started bawling. After talking I found it was because he thought Elmo was dying (I think the music was a bit similar to the funeral music.) I was glad to be able to put it together and talk about his fears.
    It might have been a bit early for it but when his own great-grandma passed away just a month or so later I was glad we had hit the issue head on.

  8. No, 8 is old enough for that explanation. I think i was 8 or so when my mother told me that my uncle had a terminable blood disease (HIV). She also told me in a separate conversation that he was gay (or in her words, likes men, instead of women)I understood at that age what it meant (didn’t hurt that it was in the ’80’s and HIV was in the news and the schools etc)
    I’ve always been impressed by her honesty with me and I think it helped open doors later on. I really appreciated the honesty in a way that I could understand, which is what I think you did.

  9. I think you handled it really well for his age.In theory, I believe in being honest and age-appropriate. Unfortunately, I’m not sure I know how to be age-appropriate in these areas. Recently, my 3 yo asked my dad where his mother was. I said something like, “She’s not with us anymore here on earth.” My dad just made a sad face and said, “She’s dead.” My daughter didn’t ask about it anymore, but I have NO idea how to explain “dead” when it comes up again. I’ve been dreading the possible deaths of our getting-older pets.
    So sorry Alex is so sick! I hope that the vet is able to get him all fixed up.

  10. My mom came from a family where things were always hidden and – not coincidentally – there was some sexual abuse that went one. Part of the reason it went on for so long was the the kids were taught to keep secrets and that it was okay if grown-ups were sometimes dishonest.I hate always bringing sexual abuse into this sort of conversation, but for me, that experience profoundly shaped how I communicate with my kids. I feel like it comes up the most in death and sex conversations. Moxie, I think the way you addressed the issue is a good one. My daughter, just turned 5, has sometimes asked me if I will die and then she will really miss me, etc. I’ve told her that I *will* die, but probably not for a very long time and that my mom and my mom’s mom are still alive. I just think being as honest as possible for their age is the best way. I’ve tried to do the same for the inevitable “where did the baby come from” and “how did the baby get out” questions.

  11. I think, in general, kids are able to handle news about death at a pretty young age, if you try to put it in a way they’ll understand. My daughter is only 15 months and I haven’t faced this challenge yet, but I still remember when my parents chose not to tell me, when I was about 8, that our two elderly (and very sick) dogs were put down. They just weren’t there when I came home from school one day. I remember feeling so angry and betrayed by my parents – keeping it from me definitely made it worse.Kudos to you for your honesty. I plan to try and keep explanations simple, understandable and honest with my daughter when this inevitable situation arises. I know it won’t be easy.

  12. I’m curious — have you read the “Why kids lie” chapter in Nurtureshock? It was pretty interesting (I just read it last night). Sounds like your son is a little older than the kids they were talking about in the chapter where they point out that for kids, intent doesn’t play into lies – something is a lie, or it isn’t, and they don’t like it when adults lie to them. So I think you’re doing right by being honest.

  13. When our cat had to be put down b/c of advanced kidney problems, we told my just turned 5 yrs old son that the kitty was sick and hurting and he wasn’t going to be better, and the animal dr was going to help him die. Following advice from Dr Google, we asked if he wanted to come with us to the vet’s office, and he did. He was in the room with us when the cat got the injection. We took the cat’s body (wrapped up in a box so not visible) to my mom’s in the country and had a burial, and created a headstone for him. My son cried, and so did I, but he didn’t dwell on it. Occasionally he’ll tell me that we should go visit the cat’s grave, and we always bring flowers. He handled it very well.

  14. I’m definitely in favor of honesty, but am struggling with this myself. Our 16.5 yo cat has suddenly (last night) started yowling & hissing in pain when he is creakily standing up. I am trying to move my work schedule around to get him into the vet today… and our 3 yo daughter has been telling the cat, “poor boy – you will feel better in a few days.” I strongly sense this is not the case… and to make it worse, she and my husband are leaving mid-day to go to his mother’s for the weekend! We started framing the (at some point) inevitable death conversation with her when responding to her this morning.In my experiences, personally and professionally, very young kids have some idea of death as being both permanent and as a charged topic. When my daughter was 2.5 yo, the fish died at her daycare, which the teachers did not tell us, but they had some sort of conversation with the kids. (Again, did not discuss with us.) Here’s how we learned about it: I mentioned to my husband that a neighbor, whom we didn’t know, had died… and Q said, “I know what died is… that’s when you sink to the bottom of the water and never come back.” And… that solved the mystery of her sudden aversion to swim class a few weeks prior! We have been working on her fear of water/swimming ever since… and being really careful in how we discuss our cat’s current state of health in anticipation of future discussions.

  15. My advice is to get an aquarium. The kids will get plenty of practice in dealing with pets dying then. Now, before you accuse me of poor fish keeping, the aquarium my son was in contact with was one at his (fabulous) day care (note to self: get aquarium of our own). It taught him well. He got the sick-dying-dead-funeral down pat and it helped us through not only other pets dying but also two of his grandparents. An aquarium really brings death right into everyday conversation and gives the kids a vocabulary that they can use for many tough situations that can be hard to prepare for.

  16. @ThyThat’s a brilliant idea! Much better than the ‘send them to Religion round Easter time’ cos after my then 4 year old’s first Easter, we got sick-dying-dead-resurrection for EVERYONE!

  17. I think 8 is certainly old enough to understand illness and death and that you handled it well. I would continue to be honest, but also to let him guide the discussion in terms of how much detail to provide.A close friend of ours died of cancer when our daughter was three-and-a-half, and I was amazed at how much she was able to understand. At the end, when he was suddenly hospitalized and put on life support, we told her that he was very sick and that the doctors were trying to make him better. But then suddenly one day she announced to me that she was never going to see our friend again because he was so sick. I was floored, because we had been very careful not to say anything about him dying until it actually happened. Then, when he died, we told her that sometimes sick people can get well, but that the doctors couldn’t help our friend get better and he died. We explained that when people die, their hearts stop beating and they stop breathing and their brains stop working, and that we are not able to see them anymore. (We are Christians and so we also had lots of conversations about heaven and what happens after we die.)
    In the following months, she started asking more and more questions about how he died. She wanted to know what cancer was, including very specific questions about tumors and cancer treatments. I don’t know if that’s normal for a preschooler (it might very well be), but she also developed a huge interest in all things medical after she was in the ICU when she was two. In fact, she likes to watch graphic videos about things like lung function, people getting sutures, surgeries, etc.

  18. I think both your boys are old enough to grasp the concept of pets dying. You did the right thing, in my opinion. I think it helps them understand, and deal with death in general.

  19. I think honesty is best in this situation. When my daughter was not quite four she went with me to put our very old very sick cat to sleep…I had planned to have her wait with my mom but the vet said bring her in…she will do better to watch and it will make death seem less mysterious and scary and she will be able to mourn with you. So, I brought her in and we both wailed and cried and thus death became something less scary and mysterious though sad nonetheless. She was not traumatized and when we talk about the cat (she talks about her a lot) it is always about how awesome she was and funny and cute and then she got old and sick and that was natural too.

  20. @Caramama- we’re dealing with explaining death right now, too, due to- of all things- the Lion King book she picked out at the library with Hubby. She is very, very interested in what happens to “the bad lion” and I am fumbling.@Thy- I like the aquarium idea….

  21. FYI, there’s a really great book called “I Miss You: a first look at death” that we got from Amazon when my father-in-law died suddenly a couple months ago.We had already been very honest with my son about it, and this book helped reinforce the practical side of things (you don’t see them again) while letting parents fill in the blanks on the we-don’t-know-what-happens-after part.
    Personally, we prefer honesty, in a pared-down, kids-terms kind of way for just about everything.

  22. I think 8 is old enough for sure. I’ll bet he probably understands what death is already just from interactions with other kids at school who have dealt with it. His understanding might not be spot on but I bet its close.My dog is 9 and cat is 10… don’t expect either to go any time soon, but the dog probably within the next 3 years just due to her breed. I think the cat will live forever (seriously, he hasn’t slowed down one bit from when he was 2). My kids will be 2-3ish and 5-6ish when the dog goes, and I’m already struggling with how I’m going to deal with it.

  23. We just lost our dog quite suddenly (though not unexpectedly – he was old) and our 3.5 year old weathered it beautifully.We took her out to the garage where his body was, and she got to give him last scratchies (and then wash her hands!). We explained that his body is kind of like a shell – that what really made him Oscar to us is gone now. She suggested that we’d get to see him in heaven, and we went with that (I certainly hope so too!)
    We all went together as family to the Humane Society crematorium, where she got to see him one last time. Yes, she cried – we all did, I never tried to hide it from her – but she did fine. She needed to sleep on the floor by my side of the bed that night, had a couple wakeups the next night, and since then (it’s been 2 months) only occasionally will look into the middle distance, sigh, and say “I miss Oscar.”
    She DID talk about being worried that I would die, that her Papa and Grandmama would die…and I just told her that we all will die some day, but most of the time people don’t die until they are quite old, like Oscar.
    Eight years old is absolutely old enough to have everything explained. Anything less and they’ll ferret out your untruthfulness – something that will cause way more havoc in their lives than experiencing the death of a loved one.

  24. Funny you should mention this. Moxie, I think you did the right thing and I think your boys are old enough to know, as will be illustrated by my story. We just had a terrible blow in our community: the father of one of my son’s preschool classmates died suddenly of a heart attack on Saturday night. What’s more, all of the kids had seen him stand up, vibrant, jovial and healthy looking, and make a speech on Friday at pre-school graduation. On Monday afternoon when I got to the preschool, his five year old daughter came up to me and hopping on one leg said, “My daddy died– for real!” Her best friend chimed in, “Yeah, for real!” I couldn’t believe it, but the preschool teacher said it was true. Our community is in shock.My son, who is three, had questions, so we talked about it. I told him L.’s papa had died because his heart got sick and wouldn’t work anymore. I told him L.’s papa would never come back. My son took this in and said “Oh”, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t really understand what it means. The next morning at preschool, they had a special circle time and they talked about L’s dad, looked at his pictures and let all the kids ask any questions they wanted to. My son’s best friend said to his father the following morning, “Someday you will get old and die, but the kids at preschool will take care of me.”
    I anticipate that my son will have more questions in the coming weeks and who knows if he will develop any fears about this. I wonder how L., the daughter, will manifest her grief at school as she comes to realize her father’s absence is permanent. Still, the children know what happened– if for no other reason than that the little girl in question told her friends. They see the adults talking in hushed voices with sad faces. I think lying or dismissing or hushing up the topic would only confuse and scare the children. I think it’s possible to be honest in an age appropriate way without scaring the children. And, I might add, as the child of very secretive parents who kept things from me (and continue to do so) “for my own good”, I can affirm that kids really resent being lied to, at any age, especially when they know something is up.

  25. You did the right thing by being honest. I can remember being a child in similar circumstances and my parents outright lied to me to “spare my feelings.” Now in reality, they were simply uncomfortable with what was happening and couldn’t bring themselves to talk to a seven-year-old about it. Their actions made the inevitable outcome that much harder to bear. Kids aren’t stupid and they have radar for prevarication – if you fib, you will regret it.

  26. 8 is totally old enough. We had that conversation last year, when L was 4, and one of our cats got sick (and then died, of lymphoma). She was mostly angry about not being able to be there when he was euthanized, because she needs to experience and intellectualize things in order to “get” them. If Alex stays sick or looks like he’s not going to make it, it would be worth asking R what his preferred way of working through is – he may actually want to be there to see things, or have a memorial, or burial (where do you bury a cat in manhattan?) or get ashes back. L was actually pretty mad that I didn’t take her with me. Granted, I didn’t knwo we were going to euth the cat when I took him to the vet (it was a lethargic cat who had a GIANT tumor on palpation) and odds are good that I would have made an executive decision about a 4 year old being there anyway. But it may have been the right choice for her, given her personality.The little guy, W, is still hung up on it – he’ll start conversations with random strangers about how Buddy was his cat, but now Buddy is dead. It definitely unsettles people, but he seems to be able to need to talk about it, even more than a year later.

  27. Hate to be repetitive, but yes, Moxie, I think you were spot-on.When our first cat died, my elder son was 3 and we were clear about him being very sick; the vet came to our house and we all petted him before putting him down (son was in other room but nearby, in view). I got to hold my kitty while it happened, which helped us all.
    Second cat 6 mo later was more traumatic; son still in the room, but at the vet’s, not a good communication situation, and he still “got” what was going on. He asked a few times when the cats would come back but caught on fairly well after a few re-explanations.
    Shift ahead three years: Grandpa just died and the now-6yo gets it totally and referred back to the cats as his points of reference. His 3yo brother is still saying Grandpa will get some rest and stop being sick after he sleeps some more … but this situation wasn’t aided by DH who told the boys (dammit) that Grandpa was sleeping. Great. Thanks. Younger son already has sleeping issues … oh well … we corrected DH immediately, but still.
    Honesty = always best.

  28. Great post. I’m sorry Alex is sick. I think honesty is best (perhaps tempered with some optimism if the outcome’s not yet certain, e.g., “We hope the vet can help Alex get better, but there’s a small chance he won’t,” rather than, “Well, it’s a 50/50 chance — he’ll come home or not,” even in a case where the latter is more medically accurate).Where we live dead deer by the road aren’t uncommon and we’ve also seen one struck and killed, so have had to discuss that with my 3 y.o. son (also a dead jellyfish on the beach). But for pets’ deaths I remember the resounding lesson from my mom when I was a kid being, “We feel so sad because s/he brought us so much joy,” a useful refrain, I think.
    This sort of question (the pros/cons of being more or less honest and/or providing more or less details) comes up in other areas for me, too. DS and I visit my dad, who’s unable to get around without a wheelchair, in a nursing home, and we’ve talked about how “Grandaddy cannot walk because he broke his leg and it didn’t heal” but I try to make it plain that not everyone in a wheelchair will never walk again (or, indeed, can’t walk at all now), and also that not everyone who breaks a leg will never walk again (my dad’s situation is actually somewhat more complicated and includes dementia and an earlier stroke, but it is true that the precipitating event that turned him from someone who could still walk a little and someone who cannot walk at all was a broken hip, so I focus on that as something relatively more comprehensible but try to make sure that it’s clear to DS that these are the circumstances of one particular situation and this is one possible, but not the only, outcome, or growing older and/or being injured.).

  29. I think I would have done the same, so it’s “right” by me. We’re dealing with this topic this week too–our 13-year old cat died this week after about 10 days of being ill and trips to the vet. We told him the minimum he needed to know, and then answered his questions simply. He mainly wanted to why she was sick and whether he could get sick from her, and then why she died. That’s been a tough one; I can explain technically or medically why she was ill and died, but I think my son actually is toying with the bigger question of “why?” and mortality, and he has trouble accepting that there are some questions that we don’t know the answer to. Plus, my son really loved her and is grieving her loss.

  30. It sounds like a good middle-of-the-road path. I would think that 8 is plenty old enough to start learning about mortality and uncertainty. Definitely it’s better not to make statements/promises that “everything will be okay” when that may not be the case.

  31. I had never even considered bring kids to see a pet be euthanized or even see their dead body. It wasn’t done for me when I was growing up (though we did hold a burial and that was really really helpful to go through). With my daughter’s personality, I see now that she could benefit from seeing that happen. Hopefully we won’t be going through it soon, but our pets are getting pretty old.I’m really glad that everyone is contributing such interesting perspectives and examples to this conversation.

  32. Sounds like a consensus on age-appropriate honesty. We experienced the sudden unexpected death of one of our cats when Bear was 2.5. He was rather unfazed (I did keep him from seeing the body at that age) and would periodically ask when Lyle was coming back. So, with very young ones you might find yourself explaining over and over and over again, but that’s true of tons of things with a toddler. I also remember telling him Lyle died and that I was sad, and he said ” I’m not.”. I was surprised but told him that was ok. Didn’t want him to feel pressure that he was SUPPOSED to be sad. Do be sure all adults in the chi l’s sphere are on the same page. After a couple rounds of ” when is Lyle coming back from the hospital” I finally figured out MIL was giving him different answers than we were.

  33. @Daisy: I’m really glad you posted that. I am currently awaiting xray/bloodwork results for my cat, but my husband is flying back up to be here, since we both fear the worst. Our 3 yo daughter is still with my MIL, and I am pretty concerned that she not be the person to tell her if our cat died. Thank you for validating my gut instinct on that.

  34. I’m a huge believer in being honest with kids about this and almost without exception the kids accept, process, and move on from the grief much faster than the adults. My son has been through 3 euthanasias, and we have a fourth coming, which will be the first for my daughter. I keep them with me. Especially for my son, as he really needs to understand the physical process to have any hope at understanding the emotion (he’s autistic). I don’t mind having kids present for a euthanasia, and if an owner’s not ready to talk to their kids about it, I will do it. I will not support someone outright lying to their kids (i.e. the going to the farm type stuff). Find another vet.My kids have a lot of experience with this, though, and the older one understands that while I’m supposed to make animals better, I can’t always, so sometimes I help them die so they aren’t in pain. Convenience euthanasia is a conversation that can wait.
    I like that they have a reasonable attitude towards death. We’re probably going to outlive our pets, so I want them to see that the time and love you have with the pets is worth the pain at the end. And, truthfully, everything, everyone, will die eventually. It’s just part of it, and I think it helped when a family member died a few months ago. She was cremated, and Max knows we have our pet cremains – Roscoe’s sitting on his dresser right now – which led to a conversation that part hilarious and part horrifying regarding which dresser Great-grandma would have.

  35. @Caramama I first saw an animal euthanised (as opposed to having this handled by my mom and/or the vet but not being present myself) when I was in college. Though the particular euthanization was a sad event (obviously, but maybe more than average), I was tremendously relieved to see how phenomenally quick and non-violent the process is. In retrospect, I think it would have been helpful had I been included earlier, though I’m not sure what age would have been the right age.

  36. I find myself almost always blurting out the truth with Jamie (5), and so now I just expect to share these things with him. The readers here gave me a lot of support when our dog was sick last year and Jamie was with us when Cory was put to sleep.The difference is we knew Cory was dying for a long time. Plus he was 13 – almost 14 – when we put him to sleep so there wasn’t a lot of risk involved in the discussion. It wasn’t a matter of “if” but of “when.” But yeah, I always err on the side of truth. That instinct that prompts me to blurt out the truth also seems to kick in when I’ve said enough, thankfully.

  37. I’m a few years out from having to make these kinds of decisions regarding how honest to be with kids, but I do have some comments on the cat pee crystals.Spike, my oldest cat, has the same issue. He’s been emergency catheterized three or four times. And always on the weekend, so we got to pay more than double! 🙂 I can totally sympathize with your fear and anxiety.
    But Spike has been incident-free for almost two years now, after we tried a few different remedies.
    What continues to work for us is a strict diet of prescription hard cat food and a prednisone pill every other day. The food helps keep crystals from forming (something about balancing the Ph in his system), and the prednisone keeps him thirsty and peeing more often.
    Hope Alex recovers well!

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