Whoa, sunscreen

By now you've probably heard about the Environmental Working Group's (EWG) analysis of studies on sunscreen done by the US's Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that basically says sunscreens are not doing what they say they're doing, and may actually be causing skin cancer.

If you haven't heard about it, here's a pretty clear story from AOL Health and here's the actual EWR report and searchable database of what sunscreens are decent and which ones are bad.

I read it through once and panicked, and put my head in the sand for about 18 hours. Then I ,put on my big-girl panties and realized I had to figure out what was going on. But I need some help, so if you all could help us all figure out what this all means, I'd really appreciate it.

What I *think* I'm getting from all of this:

1. Sun protection isn't just about sunscreen. Stay in the shade, wear protective clothing, hats, etc.

2. Continue to use sunscreen. Mineral sunscreens are safer than chemical sunscreens are because chemical sunscreens can do things to our hormones. Nanoparticles of mineral sunscreens may not be safe. But we don't know for sure yet.

3. Don't use sunscreen that contains retinol or Vitamin A products because in tests it increased incidence of cancer.

If anyone out there who understands reading scientific studies can confirm, deny, or expand on that, you'd be doing us all a great service.

Now, to be selfish here for a minute. I don't honestly really care about sunscreen theory in general. I'm just concerned about my kids first, and then me. Two priorities:

1. I want to find a sunscreen that my two fair-skinned kids can use that will protect them (understanding that there's no such thing as perfect protection).

2. And I want to find a few products that I can use. I use retinol on my face at night because I'd rather not look my 37 years, and, honestly, I'm not going to stop. So I need to find a facial protection product that's a) not going to make things worse, and b) will give me sun protection. And I need a product for my body (probably what the kids use).

So please help sort all this out, so we can stop staying inside out of fear of using our normal sunscreens.

155 thoughts on “Whoa, sunscreen”

  1. Facial moisturizer – I’ve been using the Devita with SPF 30 for a couple years now and it’s working as well or better than the Clinique I was using before. Some nights I’ll use a heavy Clinique cream under my eyes, but during the day, it’s all Devita.I use Badger on the kids and they’ve never burned out in our fierce Colorado sun.

  2. I second the California baby products. They are a pain to apply BUT they do make the glue stick-like applicator. The nice thing is, you can buy it at Target and don’t have to go to a specialty store. I had a hard time tracking down ‘natural’ sunscreens that actually work when I took my 2-month-old to the beach. I’m happy to report, he didn’t burn, or seem to get much sun at all. Turns out it’s really not about the spf.. 30 is fine.. it’s about the coverage.

  3. I’m going to order a rashguard shirt and swim shorts for my daughter (son is covered there already). The actual sunscreen thing is a real problem – we live in Georgia, my kids are reddish-blonde, and who the hell can afford sunscreen at close to $20 for 3 ounces (when you’re supposed to apply 1 ounce each time you wear it!)? I mean, we’re rich, and I balk at that! Add that my daughter is sensitive to a lot of sunscreens (so we have to test them to make sure she doesn’t break out), you can’t buy the pricey ones easily here, and she’s embarrassed by zinc oxide showing. And she won’t wear a hat. And she’s at summer camp, outside in the sunniest part of the day often enough, 5 days a week. I don’t know what the hell to do.

  4. We go through sunscreen here like it’s going out of style. Seriously. Redheaded children in the Middle East. In the “winter” too, unless it’s forecast to be a rainy day…and a true “rain all day” rainy day almost never happens.If I used California Baby, Nature’s Gate, etc. I’d be broke. Ditto if I used the Israeli sunscreens, which I hope are good, for what they are charging (approx $30 for a bottle that’s probably around 14 oz). The price of sunscreen here makes me livid, because of course everyone needs it, most of the time, and people only tend to *really* use it at the beach or hiking, not for just walking around or sending kids to school (where they play outside, natch). Sigh. And in 30 years we’ll all be paying for everyone’s skin cancer treatments.
    Every time someone comes to visit me I ask them to bring me a bottle of Coppertone Water Babies SPF 50, which rates a 3 at the EWG with no additional concerns. That is honestly ok with me. We wear hats all the time in the summer, but long sleeves/long pants when it is 95 degrees for most of the day, every day, in the summer is just unrealistic.
    Of course I had been using Neutrogena on myself, which is rated “WTF are you doing wearing this?!?!”…maybe I will switch to the Coppertone also.

  5. I like the California Baby products for kids. It’s EXPENSIVE and a pain to apply, but seems to protect well. Recently tried Blue Lizard based on EWG rankings from last year, and my daughter got burned the first time we used it.

  6. I live in Australia (moved here from Seattle) and kids are REQUIRED to wear WIDE brim hats in terms 1 and 4 and most kids wear “rashee” tops at the beach / pool. Some kids wear swim HATS. (Take a look at the photo of my DD in my banner for the school uniform hat – serious sun protection.) Plus, most playgrounds have shade sails over them. The sunscreen we used is an Aussie brand (Cancer Council) so it isn’t EWG rated. Go buy hats!!

  7. I am really bad about sunscreen. I know, give me the Bad Mama award. My daughter doesn’t burn easily, and neither do I, and I’m just not very diligent. I do make sure to use it when we’re going to be on/by the water and in other especially sun-intense situations. For normal everyday playing in the backyard or whatever though, I don’t do it.We use Badger 30 spf and hope for the best. Part of my rationalization for not being good about applying it has been exactly the chemical/hormonal concerns that are being publicized now. I’m going to get her a rash guard and swim shorts for this year, and a new sun hat too.
    This is one of those no-good-answer parenting dilemmas, I think.

  8. This is a subject near and dear to my heart–myself, husband and son are all of 100% irish-american descent, blue-eyed, extremely fair skinned and with strong family histories of skin cancer.we’re religious users of either California Baby or Badger sunscreens, whichever Target has on the shelves. yeah, it’s expensive but i’ve had far too much first-hand experience w/ skin cancer and it’s horrible, horrible, horrible. I’m not trying to be a fear monger but whatever i can do to lessen that risk, so be it.
    we also use Lands End swimwear (SPF 50) and Coolibar hats.
    the interesting part of the EWG info for me was the discussion about the FDA being far behind Europe and Australia in approving new sun screens/sun protection technology. So even though you can’t buy some of those sunscreens here in the US, Amazon has no problem shipping them. I just purchased this:

  9. I bought Blue Lizard for my daughter because she has very sensitive skin. I’ve been really happy with it, and she is fine as long as I don’t apply it sparingly. And, since I’m pregnant, I’m using it myself and it’s been great, and I burn if I’m outside for 15 minutes without sunscreen.

  10. The rash guard shirts really work and by the difference in color between my sons forearms and upper arms, the sunscreen I’m using does not.

  11. Contrary to what one might expect it’s easy to get sun-burned in the UK even when it’s not sunny.Last weekend had stunning sunny weather like a bolt of golden happiness from the sky after a long winter. As always there were plenty of burned adults on show, shoulders, legs, faces etc. First sunny day tradition.
    Sadly one London mum sunned herself on Brighton beach and laid her five month old right next to her. The poor mite was hospitalised with 40% burns. The most extreme example of the urge here to soak up every ray and get a tan after spending all winter in.
    Anyhow, rant over.
    My two year old won’t wear a hat, even if mummy and daddy wear hats.Refusal from birth, born in January so I got lots of ” your baby needs a hat ” we’re working on sunglasses.
    She is in long denim trousers and a long sturdy shirt every day because of her eczema. I put her in cute short sleeved pyamas last weekend and there were torn open arms in the morning. So she’s got to wear full clothes coverage.
    I burn like a crisp so also wear the long sleeves and trousers.
    The only Badger I can get here has essential oils in it which gives essential itch to my little girl.
    So we use the La Roche Posay Anthelios 40 on all exposed bits.
    That is over my daughter’s usual emollient and over moisturiser for me. Sunscreens are too drying otherwise.
    I also am careful about total exposure in day. Not for my daughter who has her father’s skin and takes sun well, but for me.
    I really feel for Flea who has the daughter and fierce Georgia sunshine to contend with. Ouch.

  12. Okay, a little perspective from the sciences over here:1. It’s not that all chemical sunscreens are bad; just skip those with Vitamin A and oxybenzone.
    2. If you’re using a vitamin A (retinol) product at night, you must be more diligent about applying sunscreen during the day. It these make you more sensitive to sun (during my Retin-A and then accutane years, I became an olive skinned person who burned like a redhead!).
    3. The amount of sunscreen to put on is, well, a lot.
    4. Other sun protection is always smart.
    In short: read ingredients; skip retinol and oxybenzone; use large quantities.
    No reason to freak out or panic on this one– we KNOW lots of sun is bad for the skin, so even inadequate coverage with sunscreen is better than nothing.

  13. For kids with atopic dermatitis my son’s dermatologist recommended BIODERMA SPF 40. It’s spray on and easily absorbed. No break outs at all, unlike with all the other sunscreens I have used in the past. Don’t know if it’s available outside Europe, sorry.

  14. Blue Lizard sunscreen from Australia. Do some research on the brand and the Australian standards for sunscreen ratings. Blue Lizard has been amazing and it is a staple in our house. We actually order the gallon size with a pump from Amazon.

  15. I just looked up the ingredients in my favorite facial product. Octinoxate and octisalate, both rated moderate hazard, at 6 and 3 respectively. I’d prefer low hazard, but because I love the product so much I’m going to keep using it. It’s Avon Magix Face Perfector, $10 or less for a tube. It’s a face primer with SPF 20, and it feels nice going on and makes my skin look smooth and even. I wear it every day, either alone or under mineral makeup (which adds additional sun protection.) Love it.For my son, I’ve been using aerosol sunscreens because they are so quick and easy to apply… but it’s likely not the healthiest choice. But going out unprotected into the Florida sun isn’t a good idea either!

  16. Hmm… I’ll be honest. On this data, I’m not sure I’m as 100% persuaded as folks here seem to be that some sunscreens are this big, bad, baddie worth freaking out about. I also don’t think I buy the “some sunscreens cause cancer!” line anymore than I would pay heed to a headline that screamed “news flash: the sun causes cancer!” I don’t mean to be glib. Sun protection is a valid concern, but let’s not go overboard with the worry.We also have to consider the fact that the sun is also a beneficial source of vitamin D. Many are becoming vitamin D deficient. So there’s a balance we need to strike, as I see it.
    Do your due diligence, absolutely, and follow the recommendations of avoiding the sun during peak hours, applying/re-applying the correct amount, etc. But look, if scary-toned articles like this get more people to first just consider that sunscreen might be a helpful thing, then great. If, however, it takes us to a feel-awful, stick our heads in the sand place, then it becomes fear-mongering and NOT helpful. Know what I mean?

  17. Re: the vitamin A, be sure to look for retinyl palmitate in the label. I recently discovered Neutrogena pure & free baby sunblock and I was converted, b/c it uses the physical blockers and goes on smoothly like a lotion, not so thick. But after reading more about vitamin A on the EWG site, I realized that my newly beloved sunscreen was hiding vitamin A in its ingredients list (“retinyl palmitate”)! Sigh. Back to the drawing board.What do people do about the difficulty of applying the thick creamy sunscreens to wiggly kids? My 5 y.o. is moderately tolerant, but the baby just will not put up with it.

  18. We love Blue Lizard sensitive or baby (they are the same thing) for body. Neutrogena Pure and Simple stick for the kid’s face; recently converted to Devita SPF 30 for my face. We used to use California baby but it’s wicked expensive. And hats!

  19. Also not to put all the blame on the sunscreen, I don’t apply it everyday like I should and I almost rarely put on enough or the 20 minutes prior. So maybe it’s just me and not the sunscreen. I’m going to try and follow the directions a little better and see if the results improve.

  20. @kate – yes me too: “Of course I had been using Neutrogena on myself, which is rated “WTF are you doing wearing this?!?!”…maybe I will switch to the Coppertone also.”

  21. If you’re really worried, I would check out some of the science on PubMed. This is just my personal opinion, but EWG appears to be the kind of environmental group that tends to overstate risks and does not present a balanced picture – according to them, it seems like everything is toxic and every toxin is highly dangerous. I have my doubts about whether the scientific literature they cited is an accurate representation of the current knowlegde.But regardless of whether sunscreen is dangerous, it can’t hurt to stay in the shade and keep covered up most of the time.

  22. A few thoughts 1) I am always suspicious when anyone does a “ranking” of specific products. It’s something to keep in mind that even non-profit groups have their own motives that are often tied to where their funding came from. 2) I hate when someone comes out with a crazy headline like “sunscreen causes cancer”, it makes me really doubt their goal in publishing their results. Is it to get attention by scaring people, or is it to improve health? 3) it is important to note that they only did their rankings based on the ingredients, they did not do actual tests of the products. There is no accounting for the amounts of each ingredient in the product, and with any ingredient, the risk is in the *dose*. Unfortunately, most manufacturers will not provide much information on quantities of ingredients, so I understand that the only way they could assess the ingredients would be to do testing of each product.In summary, I think that their ratings are half-baked, not scientific, but more or less a resource for ingredients in sunscreen (but note that their ingredient lists were compiled from what online retailers said the ingredients were, I have run into instances where the ingredients on the website don’t match the product). I don’t think this “ranking” should be used to rule out a product that you like and works for you. The best form of sun protection is the one that you use, or that you can get on your kids.
    TheLuckyGal brought up a really good point – in Australia they are very serious about sun protection, especially for kids, and it’s a lot easier to get kids to wear the big hats when everyone has to.

  23. I might get a bad mom award here, but we don’t use sunscreen much at all. My daughter and I both have olive skin that doesn’t easily burn. I try to keep a hat on her (and me!) and avoid the peak hours, stay in the shade when possible, etc. But if we’re going on a boat or to the beach or have a full day out in the sun planned, then we pull out the California Baby. But playing outside for an hour here and there? Almost never. I think the Cal. Baby stuff works okay, but I HATE trying to get it washed off at bathtime. It takes a lot of scrubbing which makes for an unhappy kid. That is part of my reluctance to use it more often.I realize skin cancer is a valid concern, but I also LIVED at the beach all summer, every summer as a child in the 70s & 80s and I don’t think sunscreen existed. Or at least not in our house. I’ve been checked by a dermatologist and have no skin cancer concerns.
    Again, I try to be smart about the sun. But honestly there are SO MANY things to worry about as a parent and this concern just doesn’t make my Top Ten list.

  24. Oh how I miss the days when I would wear tanning oil and sun bath all day without concern of burning or skin cancer. Sometimes I long for my youthful days in ignorance…

  25. the skin deep site is great for finding out which sunscreens (or lotions or makeup) are free of cancer causing ingredients, they have a pretty good rating system that is really transparent and lets you decide which ingredients you are prioritizing. (http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/) zrecs has really good info on a lot of products as well and that is where i got my info on sunscreen. we use the california baby and badger (i think… we haven’t seen sun in a long time so i don’t quite remember…).

  26. On skepticism about the findings, I may have got this completely wrong but I got the impression that animal tests were used.That means shaving animals and then exposing them to UV light lamps while applying sunscreens. That’s not doing test on human cells.
    I’m not always anti vivisection but skin research on animals sadly often doesn’t reflect human skin.

  27. We use CA Baby for the baby, and less expensive brands for me. My son is allergic to chemical sunscreens, and California Baby is the only brand that doesn’t cause a raging rash for him.And, I grew up in the ’80s too, with limited sunscreen application, though I was never a sunbather. Last year (when my son was 4 months old) I was diagnosed with Stage 1 melanoma. Fortunately we caught it before it became metastatic. It could have killed me if I had waited a year. I now have an 8 inch “voldemort” scar on my shin. I was off my feet and unable to care for my son for two weeks, and it took 6 months for it to fully heal over (I had several nasty rounds of infections, as healing below the knee can be tricky).
    So, slather your kids up!!!!!!! And yourself!

  28. I’m not so great about putting sunscreen on my boys (especially for the short bouts of exposure) so I’m a STRONG proponent of those long sleeved rash guards. My boys find them comfortable and then I only really need to apply suncreen to their faces, necks and their legs.We switched to TruKids lotion (not the stick – too hard to get on) which ranks as a 3 on the list. I can live with that since my boys love the smell of the lotion so there is no fussing whatsoever when putting it on. Goes on easy, not so sticky so I figure we are more likely to use it and that has to count for something.
    I’d been using Nutrogena on me so I guess I’m in the same group of WTF am I doing to my self. I found a brand (Australian, I think) called HissyFit that I LOVE but it is pricy and wasn’t tested so not sure how it ranks.

  29. @Caliboo and Irene: Totally agree with you.For the record, I’ve been using Dr. T’s Supergoop spf 30, and really like it because it a) works to prevent sunburn/tan, b) goes on smoothly and not sticky or greasy, and c) doesn’t stain clothes. Since I’ve been in Denmark, I’ve tried about 12 different brands to find something to fulfill at least one if not two of these criteria, and failed. I order Supergoop from the states. It does contain vitamin A (it’s proudly stated on the front label!) and I don’t know if C12-15 alkyl benzoate is the same or similar to oxybenzoate, so don’t know if that is the other no-no in it or not.

  30. All 3 of us have sensitive skin, and T. inherited DH’s light-sensitive blue eyes and my fine hair, plus my super-fair (Irish-Lithuanian Jewish) skin. *And* DH is bald. So…We go through a lot of unscented California Baby 30 – cream and stick. (I wish they made a spray, but maybe that’s difficult with physical sunscreens?) But I’m less religious than i should be about application (we’re in oft-foggy SF). DH very occasionally gets mild sunburn on his head, and me on neck and chest – but the kid is so far unscathed.
    But mostly we wear hats and long sleeves and sometimes sunglasses – easy here, since it seldom gets too hot. Luckily T. wants to wear hats just like his dad, and neither leaves the house without at least one (usually both brimmed hat and beanie in the bag, for fun local-weather roulette). I have a crushable straw hat I keep in my bag.
    It’s kind of funny – my kid’s always the one in a cap and long-sleeved tee and jeans when the other kids are in shorts, but thankfully that’s what he’s comfortable in.
    By the way – I’m super fair-skinned, so wasn’t worrying about the Vitamin D thing. But it turned out I was quite deficient in it, to the point that it (along with B12 deficiency) was affecting my mood. So now T. and I take daily D supplement, and I’m muuuch calmer.

  31. I look forward to reading all these comments–just wanted to quickly ask a related question before this thread dries up. I NEED a sunscreen for my little girl that doesn’t exacerbate her eczema! Maybe one doesn’t exist. Luckily, she is fairly dark and doesn’t burn, and as a bonus we live in Maine where it’s not a year-long issue (although it was 90 here yesterday!) But her poor arms are already raw and bleedy from scratching after only a few hot days! And I feel torn about just leaving them exposed all summer. Any ideas? Thank you!

  32. @Caliboo said it perfectly. Particularly the bit about dose.I’ve been super busy, so haven’t made the time to go read the report and formulate a careful opinion yet. One thing to remember is that these rankings are based on a compilation of a lot of different published data. The information the EWG is publishing is aimed at the general public, and my quick skim of their methods section doesn’t really tell me the gory details, like whether they included every single study they could find in their meta-analysis, and if they didn’t, what their exclusion criteria were. Also, how do they compare results across studies with different methodologies? I know that there are methods for doing that, but I can’t tell what they did.
    I’d feel a lot better about their conclusions if they would write them up in a scientific paper and submit them for peer review. Maybe that is in the works?
    In the meantime, we’ll keep using our sunscreens. I know with quite a bit of certainty that unprotected exposure to the sun can cause cancer- I can even explain the mechanism. These chemicals? My take is that there are some studies that indicate they may cause cancer. But there has not been a single definitive peer-reviewed study, because man, that would have been a high profile paper that I would not have missed.
    I’m lucky in that my 3 year old likes wearing hats. I had just recently bought her a swimsuit with a rashguard top and cute little bottoms- that is way easier for pottying, anyway.
    Finally, remember the saying about who goes out in the midday sun- mad dogs and Englishmen. Seriously, we try to time our beach trips for morning.

  33. I’m also with Irene and Caliboo. 🙂 I don’t have the time to go hunting, but I’d love to read more about the methods they used in the animal studies. I remember when the news came out about BPA in bottles, I found a table that discussed the methods in some of those studies, and some of the things they did (such as using water far hotter than anyone’s dishwasher would ever get) were extremely far from many people’s real-world conditions. I’m not saying people shouldn’t be careful, but I’m often pretty skeptical about these kinds of reports, even when we’re talking about a non-profit group.I guess I can technically afford the expense of “good” sunscreens, but honestly, I’m not worried enough to spend a fortune on them. Plus, I found that some of the brands I tried were annoying. For example, Jason sunscreen got all over everything and would run into my daughter’s eyes (ouch!). With California Baby, I felt like I was using outrageous amounts with each application to get decent coverage on squirmy children, and it would often end up being a traumatic experience. Other brands that I can’t name off the top of my head have caused rashes.
    So, I think we’ll stick with what we’re using now, because it’s working for us, and really emphasizing protective clothing when we happen to be out during the sunnier times of day. Swimsuits like the Coolibar ones are wonderful, and I’m getting super strict about hat wearing this year. One thing that’s been helping my children with the latter is for ME to wear a hat, too–which is obviously something I should be doing anyway, especially as someone with two parents who have had skin cancer.

  34. I haven’t read all the posts, but funny that this would come up.I was gifted with a short surprise trip to San Diego this week by two friends for my birthday. One is a Clinique representative, so naturally we were discussing sunscreen. I began complaining about my moisturizer with sunscreen in it and she said that what they learned in Clinique school was that sunscreen blocks the delivery system of moisture to the skin.
    So for Moxie and others, to keep our faces younger, it’s better to use a moisturizer without sunscreen in it, let that soak in and apply sunscreen after that.
    Here in AZ, sun capital of the world, it’s already 95, everyone wears hats with things that cover the back of their neck. I was also told to pay attention to the days when the sun really feels like it’s burning, those are the dangerous days, the sun is really burning you. Versus the days when it’s just hot and the sun is shining brightly.
    Can’t wait to read the wisdom you all have to share about what the best sunscreen is for little ones!
    Great topic Moxie.

  35. I use sunscreen to prevent sunburn, not to prevent tanning, and the same goes for my kids. We are blond, but tan nicely – the eight month old baby currently has some noticeable tan on his forearms, as compared to the creases at wrist and elbow. So basically, I use sunscreen if I’m traveling to altitude or the beach, and not otherwise.In the cost-benefit analysis, measures that discourage us from getting exercise and spending time outdoors have a pretty high cost attached.
    I have not had a doctor tell me that preventing a natural suntan is a priority. My reading of the studies is that getting burned is the well-established and substantial risk.

  36. Well, I’m semi-pleased to find out that my Coppertone Water Babies rated a 3. But, I think I’ll check out the California Baby the next time I make a purchase. As for my face, I use Cetaphil moisturizer with SPF 15 on a daily basis, which wasn’t in the rating system. I’m sure it scores something rotten, but I’m more worried about the baby than me, honestly.

  37. Like some others above, I think this is one more situation in which the perfect becomes the enemy of the good. If I can find it easily, my kids will use it (they each have a different favorite), and it’s not giving anyone a rash, I’m going to call it good and move on.

  38. I am not convinced about the research regarding suntanning and cancer. Blistering sunburns, yes, but suntans no. We know for sure that sun exposure creates wrinkles, but truly I can live with wrinkles. What I worry about is Vitamin D deficiency and the elevated risk of breast cancer that comes with extensive sunscreen use.Folks, stay in the shade mid-day and learn to love your laugh lines. We don’t have to look 20 forever.

  39. Anon,It’s not about wanting to look 20 forever, it’s about not wanting to have little bits of my face cut off for biopsy. Again, I mean.
    I’d rather take a Vitamin D pill and skip the tan, frankly.
    I’m a little disturbed by the cavalier attitude towards sun protection that keeps cropping up, especially towards kids. I’m not saying we all have to freak out and live underground like the Morlocks, but COME ON.
    We know about skin cancer.
    We know what causes it.
    Sunscreen is widely available.

  40. Great summary, and great comments.@CaliBoo: Here’s how EWG’s Skindeep database works: For most products, they enter in initial ingredient lists, contact the manufacturer, and offer for them to create an account to challenge their findings if need be as well as to update their ingredient list as their formulations change. The problems then arise when companies fail to do this. We just spoke with one maker of a kids’ mineral sunscreen that had completely changed their formulation and eliminated four ingredients that now have them flagged at a “caution” level in Skindeep. i.e. their ingredient list really doesn’t match the SD listing anymore. (Also understand that SD listings offer relative rankings that may change over time; last year this particular sunscreen, with that same original formulation, was very highly rated.) Bottom line is, whose responsibility it *should be* to maintain these listings is debatable, but what is clear is that there is no way EWG *could* do it on their own. Their database is gargantuan. So they have set up a system that relies on maintenance by companies, and some companies do while others may not.
    We almost removed our ZRecs Guide recommendation for this particular sunscreen before realizing we should call the company, and voila, their sunscreen contains none of the trigger ingredients that (still) contribute to their current low score.
    @Already have the GOOD… You said what I was thinking.
    @Slim: Company makes claims, provides no evidence. Consumer publication makes counterclaims, provides no evidence. Nano is a confusing area, but the difference here may lie in whether a listed particle size is claimed as an average or a minimum, and if it is a minimum then what fraction can exceed (?) that minimum. I’m already confused. But some point you have to ask why people will not provide you with their data. Most who don’t have a reason for not doing so.

  41. “Consumer publication makes counterclaims, provides no evidence.”Except for laboratory testing.
    You may feel it’s inadequate or inappropriate, but it exists.

  42. Thanks to everyone for your comments and insight. I’m not sure where I stand on this, but like others who have commented – sun protection is a big deal in our house: all 3 of us fair with red or blonde hair and green or blue eyes. DH has the extra fun complication of taking drugs daily that increase his chance of skin cancer. Oh, yay.Our dermatologist recommended one of the chemical sunscreens (LaRoche Posay) that is recommended on the EVA site. Though I’ve always wondered about the dermatologists motivations for recommending that particular brand.
    We all wear hats (go figure for someone who signs off as ‘the milliner’). And amazingly, my almost two-year-old actually asks for his hat either before we go out or when we go out into the sunshine. I hope that habit sticks.
    I’ve taken to trying to wear longer sleeves and doing the same for DS when the weather isn’t oppressive (I get super cranky when I’m too hot). And, we got our car windows tinted (the darkest that was legally possible), which I think is making a big difference. DH has had small spots of skin cancer removed, you guessed it, all on the left side of his face – the side most exposed to the sun when you’re driving. But things seem to have slowed since we got the tinting.
    Still trying to find the best sunscreen for DS.
    And lastly, FWIW, when I asked our dermatologist what sunscreen we should use on our sun, he said “Kids under 2 shouldn’t be in the sun”. Nice concept in theory but not so realistic. But I guess a good reminder to do all the physical sun barrier things, especially if your kid is under 2.

  43. @the milliner, I totally agree with the realism factor. Impossible to not take kids under two outside while trying to give them a healthy lifestyle of running around and being active.Also depends on where you live–a lot of the advice here is great, if you live in certain places in N. America or Europe. For the southwestern US, Middle East, N Africa, etc…well, shade is a lot harder to come by. Long sleeves on children seems downright cruel. It seems backwards (it did to me), but in Israel the early morning can be as hot as midday and it cools off starting in the midafternoon (this applies in the summer). Once upon a time, NOBODY worked in the middle of the day–commerce and life just shut down between 2 and 4 pm–things came to life again after that. Now with the advent of widespread air conditioning that’s leaving the culture somewhat (school hours are a major holdout), and you often do have to run in and out throughout the day, into the sun!

  44. I don’t feel long sleeves are cruel necessarily. My two year old daughter’s eczema is much more stable now, and she can wear short sleeved shirts for short and supervised periods, but once she starts scratching she will draw blood.And you can’t put sunscreen over scratched bloody skin as it is meant to go on not in. And once an area is scratched the urge to have another scratch is irresistible.
    Sorry to be so defensive about the long sleeves.
    For the milliner:
    LaRoche Posay is owned by L’Oreal and you can find the same sunscreens in other L’Oreal sunranges in Europe and Ombrelle? in the US. Don’t know about Canada.
    Mexoryl SX is very good and safe UVA blocker.It’s photo-stable too. It needs help to block UVB, the burning rays, so it is combined with other physical or chemical sun screens in formulations.
    Big bottles of L’Oreal sunscreen here are much more reasonably priced than LaRoche Posay.
    The wheeze is the special mineral water that has selenium that makes the brand so great supposedly. L’Oreal also do Vichy and Biotherm which have a different special mineral water. And Avene which uses yet another mineral water.
    All great big L’Oreal factories really.
    La Roche Posay was very heavily marketed to doctors to get the brand established. They’re good products but very heavily pushed to the medical fraternity.
    I do like Anthelios a lot though, as it is good for atopic eczema skin and I spent a year on Accutane and I burn really easily anyway.
    Their facial sunscreen really did work for me then. L’Oreal uses the premium brands to sell the most advanced of its formulas.

  45. When it comes to sunscreens, avoid the following:benzophenone 3: absorbed through the skin. Can cause allergic reactions, foto- sensitivity, hormonal problems.
    PABA: will be banned in EU as from October for same reasons as benzophenone 3.
    methylbenzylidencamphor: studies on animals suggest it effects thyroid function. Penetrates the skin barrier and can cause allrgies.
    Source: Italian Consumer magazine Altroconsumo, June 2010.

  46. @Wilhelmina,Wow, thanks so much. That’s exactly what I suspected about La Roche Posay being heavily marketed to doctors, and hence to us, the patients. But it’s good to see that for a chemical sunscreen it is one of the better ones.
    We use Ombrelle on DS, so glad to hear it can be as good as La Roche Posay (if I understand what you’re saying correctly). Didn’t find Ombrelle on the EWR site when I looked quickly, so I was wondering. Ombrelle is quite popular here (Canada, well, Quebec & Ontario anyhow) and it seems to have the reputation as ‘a good one’.
    I like the Anthelios too. But it is pricey. May just keep it for my face & switch to Ombrelle for the rest of me. I spent a year on Accutane as well and still use a retin-A cream at night so I’m in the camp of extra, extra sensitive as well.

  47. Can any of you science-types out there explain ‘immunotoxicity’ to me? Does that essentially mean that it weakens your immune system? Or something else?

  48. The milliner,Equally as good as. What happens is that L’Oreal has research centres working on new things. Once a big new thing comes along it goes first to the premium brands. Lancome and Helena Rubinstein get the new mascara ingredient first and then it goes into the cheaper ranges.
    Like there are rather more shades of lipstick and foundation in the more expensive ranges than the cheaper ones there are more specific formulations of sunscreen in the more expensive La Roche Posay range.
    I am so not a scientific type but as I understand it immunotoxic means it makes the immune system malfunction. Either by weaking the immune system or by allergy or by the body attacking itself.

  49. All right. Retinol increases sensitivity to UV, so it should only be applied at night and possibly washed off in the morning. Based on current research, a combination of physical and chemical agents are the most effective at blocking both types of UV rays. Some of the chemical agents can be irritants and may be related to carcinogens but it’s not certain at this point. It is true that some chemicals cause more problems for some people, which confuses the issue.Several plant oils/butters have good UV blocking properties and can double or triple the amount of sun exposure your skin can take without damage. These include cocoa butter, avocado oil, and coconut oil, which can be combined with titanium dioxide for more protection with a low risk of any negative effects. Any sunscreen must be applied at the amount of about a teaspoon per square foot to be fully effective.
    My daughter tans easily but I burn before tanning, and we both usually just wear cocoa butter. If we’re swimming or doing some other low-shade activity, then we use Coppertone Water Babies and hats. So far neither of us has had burns except where we missed a spot, but I’m careful to take advantage of available shade!

  50. I am a fair-skinned red-head who was born and raised in the FL sun and my mom was SO diligent for eons about keeping me covered in sunscreen (Water Babies, mostly, though Coppertone was a fave as well), in the shade (as a baby and then when I was older and learned to loathe the sun) and with bonnets/hats on. Despite the fact that I have always lived very close to the beach, my friends all have pools, etc. I’ve had only a small amount of bad sunburns in my life. My mom, however, practically looked Native American for her wedding photos 35+ years ago and spent most of her formative years sailing sailboats in competitions (even got to be an alternate for an Olympic try-out) so her skin is practically leather by now. (She also is an avid gardener who has only learned the importance of sunscreen for herself in the last 10 years)We cover my 2-year old in Water Babies or some such whenever she is out in the sun for any length of time. All my make up has at least an SPF of 15 (or higher) and if I’m going to be in the sun, I add some sunscreen under that. (But mostly, I avoid the sun – pale is beautiful). My daughter is only recently agreeing to wear hats out doors, though I tried when she was a baby and ended up just avoiding the sun as much as possible with her.

  51. Huh.Agree on the value of sun protection (per the last anon. on the prior page) but I admit I’m skeptical about the value of always wearing sunscreen when we are outdoors, as we are sometimes advised.
    I try to avoid the sun (by staying indoors or in the shade) and when I don’t do that, I use sunscreen. But if I’m walking to my car from my office (i.e. a day when I’m mostly indoors) or through the woods or standing on a shaded playground, I don’t wear sunscreen (or put it on my tot), leaving me less worried (because we don’t always wear it) about what’s in my sunscreen. I will look at the list, but with toddlers I do think there’s something to be said for using whatever you can get on them, whether that’s spray, cream, or clothing, and for keeping all of ourselves out of (much) direct sunlight.

  52. On the Vitamin D thing, as a child I used to get cod liver oil every day for that for every month with an r in it.Yuck. Although you can make extra and store Vitamin D in summer in Northern and Western Europe you can’t make enough.Then I got old(er) and it all went quiet on Vitamin D. Not least because of fears of polluted fish oils. The recent return of rickets in South East Asian origin children spending much time indoors and with mums wearing traditional clothing.
    Now it’s recommended again for everyone but fortunately there is D3 supplementation of non animal origin now. It doesn’t last though, unlike D2 from animals so you need to keep taking it. So I do and give it to my little one too.
    There’s no tan you can get domestically to make enough Vitamin D in the UK. That is if you did tan and not burn like a lobster like I do without cover.

  53. If we are going to be out in the sun longer than 20 min, I use sunscreen. I am all for sun protection, but I am also worried about all the vitamin D deficiency reports, too. A P.A. at my ped office said that it was okay to get a little sun. I also try to stay indoors in the mid-day when the sun is at its peak.

  54. Well if you weren’t jealous of Canadians’ universal health care and one-year maternity leave, then here’s another reason for envy: they have better sunscreens than us.Mexoryl or Tinosorb are the only two sunscreen ingredients that are actually effective at blocking UVA. Avobenzone (aka Parsol), the UVA blocker used in most US sunscreens, actually degrades in sunlight. Though the FDA finally approved Mexoryl a few years ago, it’s still nigh impossible to find a sunscreen with Mexoryl here in the US. According to the EWG report, Tinosorb still isn’t approved yet.
    I buy all my sunscreen in Canada. My favorites are La Roche-Posay Anthelios or Hydraphase UV in SPF 30. (Sephora carries Hydraphase, but only SPF 15.) L’Oreal Ombrelle and Vichy are also good. FYI these are all brands you can find at an ordinary drugstore in Canada. My Vichy SPF 60 body sunblock has Mexoryl, octorcrylene, titantium dioxide, and avobenzone, all of which are on the low or moderate risk lists on the EWG site.
    Now my question is, where can I find a sunblock that’s safe to use on a 5-month-old who is always sucking on her hands? 🙂

  55. Does anyone know of a spray for kids that is at least a 3 or better? I just bought Coppertone Water Babies at Target and looked it up…it is a 7!! So that is going back. But what other spray exists that is effective and safe?The reason I need a spray is that my kids’ summer camp won’t put the sunscreen on the kids (they have a strict no adults touching kids policy) but they will spray them. I can put the sunscreen on them at home in the morning, but they are in summer camp for 8 hours and I would feel better if some more could be applied after swimming or even just halfway through the day. I am Norwegian/English/Irish and one of my guys has my pale pale skin and blue eyes. The other is not much darker.

  56. My mother has had all kinds of things cut off of her face, neck, lips, ears… thanks to years in the southern California sun. I’ve had some minor issues. My husband is as pale as I am so the kid gets sunscreen.We use Badger. It’s goopy and white, but it works and does not aggravate his senstive skin.
    I read a few years ago that the amount of sunscreen expected to be put on to actually give you the coverage is quite high. Not like a lot of lotion, more like a face mask. So, whatever you choose, apply liberally.
    Also, effectiveness decreases dramatically with time. Don’t dig out the sunscreen from 5 years ago.
    I’m not as good as I could be about putting sunscreen on my son, but the first day he was out in the sun for about an hour (two weeks ago) he definitely got burnt. I felt bad, I do think it’s important to get sunscreen on pale kids. And me.
    In my opinion, if you’re in a risk group, good sunscreen is worth it.
    Oh, and I believe Cosmetics Database is tied to EWG. EWG sends out the sunscreen mail every year (which reminds me to buy a new tube of Badger). They *are* a bit alarmist, but I don’t mind a reminder to be a little critical of ingredients.

  57. Vanicream #60 for “sun screensensitive”. Terrible name (rhymes with “fannycream”), but it does not make my daughter’s eczema worse, does not sting our eyes, and does not make her look like she’s gone nine rounds as most baby-sunscreens have. Active ingredients are zinc and titanium stuff, which make us even whiter than we redheads already are. It does contain C12-15 ALKYL BENZOATE (anybody know what this is?). It is mail-order, about $15.00, a tube. we order two at the beginning of the season and it lasts thru the winter. We also picked our apartment home based on tree coverage. Crazy, right? Hats, rash guards and swim tights. Coolibar I think and “title nine” for my swim capris. We LOVE the ocean, and go to RI and FL and PR whenever we can.I used to hold foil under by chin and purposefully burn myself. Stopped this at about 25, went the other direction, and now I am so freaking pleased to say that people often think I am ten years younger than I am. Gullible? Always have been, its a gift.

  58. I also use Vanicream, SPF 30. It’s not too high on EWG rankings–a 3. I was really bummed to learn that Kiss My Face SPF 30 Spray was a 7! It’s so hard to get a toddler to slow down for sunscreen application. It’s pretty much always a nightmare slathering the stuff on him.I use Devita Solar Protection SPF 30 as my facial moisturizer. It’s fantastic, but just in time for the 2010 rankings it’s…totally out of stock at the manufacturer and on the websites I’ve used to buy it. And I’ve just run out. So for a spell I might use the Eucerin Sensitive SPF 30 facial moisturizer I used to use, as it’s not too high on the EWG rankings.

  59. I have been using Target’s UP and UP spf 50 and its a spray. I spray my kids and they got a burn today, so I was pissed. They also have a tan on their arms and legs even though I apply it every day. If this si what the coverage is going to be like, do they automatically get skin cancer at age 12? This stuff here SUCKS.

  60. We have always used Banana Boat and are using the sprays this year. I absolutely hate touching lotions of any kind, so they are a lifesaver for me. Dh burns easily, so he and dd1 use the same spray (Baby 50). Yes, it got ranked as a 7 BUT I believe that is mainly b/c it is a spray and therefore an inhalant danger. I am extra believing this b/c others have mentioned their sprays got ranked at 7. I only spray it outside, it’s gross. DD1 gets sprayed just once every day that she is going to be playing outside for a good period, which means almost every day 🙂 She will get reddish if I don’t, BUT I do not reapply it ever. She has a tiny tan and no burns (blonde/blue). I do not keep her in during peak hours b/c I feel it is much more important for her to be outside than to worry about the freaking sun (she is two). I do not wear sunscreen unless I am on vacation. I do not burn easily.

  61. Vichy is fantastic – friends discovered it while studying abroad and it became a hot item to beg for from travelling friends.In 2007, Duane Reade drugstore had an exclusive contract to carry Vichy is the USA. I believe it’s more broadly available now but maybe DR has a website or you can pick up Vichy with Mexoryl when visiting NYC.
    Loreal has a good face sunscreen with Mexoryl. But, alas, Target doesn’t carry it locally. Happy Harry’s did but seems to have dropped it.
    That left me at Sephora about a month ago searching out the Lancome version. It’s MUCH pricier but because it’s in a tube rather than a pump (like Loreal) I figure there will be less wasted. Every morning, I’ll apply it to my face. Night time is for eye cream and lip balm!
    One thing to consider is that people over trust their sunblocks. “I put some on this morning” is a common refrain. But it gets sweated away or swum (?) off.
    I grew up the tannable sister to two red headed brothers and now am married to a fair husband with two red headed sons. My father was the son of a sun worshipper and now lives with annual topical chemotherapy. It gives him pizza face but will, potentially, reverse the EARLY bad habits. Then there is my maternal great grandmother who at 103 looked younger than my paternal grandmother at 80. I want to remain both youthful and present…
    Thus – don’t panic about this news. Apply sun block on your munchkins every morning as part of getting dressed. You will not have success if you wait until you’re at the pool – not to mention it will not have soaked in and will wash right off negating its effectiveness. Make like the equitorial folks and have a high sun rest/meal indoors. And, any sun protection is better than none.

  62. Re spray and burning: I took one child, very pale skin, red hair, etc, to the water park last year. Actually, I took a bunch of kids. I have blonde hair and burn very easily, so I made sure to apply spray Nuetrogena to all of us every 1.5 hours, at least. and I put on a LOT.The other kids were OK. The redhead and I were blistered the next day–and I was pissed!

  63. I can’t find it again, but I read good things on some blog about the safety AND price of the sunblock at Trader Joe’s.(Oh, how I wish we had a TJ’s within 1k miles of here!!)

  64. @ Alisha in Maine, we used California Baby on my son during his eczema days without a problem. Now that he’s older we switched to Banana Boat Kids, which this place rates as caution… I’m going to use up what I have and switch back to CB or Badger I guess.I found this post the day after I loaded up on Neutrogena on sale at Target. Took it all back yesterday.
    My mom has had two melanomas removed, one when I was a kid (1970 or so) from her arm and another from her shin just this year. She lives in Alaska, not the sunniest state in the Union, and, since 1970 or so, has been diligent about covering up and/or wearing sunscreen. My FIL has some pre-cancerous spots on his head that he has frozen every year or so by the dermatologist.

  65. below is a recent article regarding the effectiveness and safety of sunscreen (and written in response to the EWG report). note that the EWG report has not been peer reviewed and is not supported by the AAD. also, the comments come from Dr. Henry Lim, Chairman of Dermatology at Henry Ford Hospital (and my father-in-law!). throught this might clarify the (mis)information regarding sunscreen.Is Sunscreen Dangerous? 4 Sun Protection Do’s and Don’ts
    A new report says sunscreens are dangerous and ineffective at preventing skin cancer; here’s the real deal
    By Deborah Kotz
    Posted: May 25, 2010
    Be afraid, very afraid of that sunscreen you lather on. So suggests a new report from the Environmental Working Group. Most have dangerous chemicals that will accelerate the growth of skin tumors or disrupt the intricate workings of your hormonal systems, the nonprofit group reports. And these “modern-day snake oil” products don’t work anyway, the group says, giving people a false sense of security so they stay out in the sun longer and get deadly skin cancer. Scary stuff. But is it true?
    The American Academy of Dermatology says no, adding in a statement released yesterday that “scientific evidence supports the beneficial effects of sunscreen” and that sunscreen is “an important tool in the fight against skin cancer.” The EWG report, though, does make two legitimate points: First, we shouldn’t assume that rubbing on some sunscreen in the morning will protect our bikini-clad bodies at the beach all day. Second, most of us use far too little sunscreen to get significant protection. Here’s what Henry W. Lim, chairman of dermatology at Henry Ford Hospital, recommends when it comes to using sunscreen.
    1. Do trust that sunscreens work. They’re not snake oil, says Lim, and are regulated as over-the-counter drugs by the Food and Drug Administration. The current products labeled “broad spectrum,” “wide spectrum” or “UVA/UVB protection” do a good job at blocking out UVB rays (the kind that causes sunburns and skin cancers) and a fairly good job at blocking UVA rays (the kind that causes tanning, wrinkles and also contributes to skin cancers). There’s some controversy over UVA protection because the FDA hasn’t yet issued regulations—expected in October—for how much protection from UVA is needed to allow the use of the wide or broad spectrum label. (Older sunscreen products protected only against UVB.) Products containing titanium dioxide, ecamsule (Mexoryl SX), avobenzone, or zinc oxide generally provide this broader protection.
    2. Do apply a lot, and frequently. While the FDA recommends applying one ounce or a shot-glassful of sunscreen to fully protect your body from head to toe, most of us use just a quarter of that amount and this lowers the sun protection factor by as much as a factor of 10. Studies suggest that a product with an SPF of 30 will give you an SPF of barely 3, says Lim, if you use the amount in a quarter of a shot glass. He’s also not a fan of spray-on sunscreens since people tend to apply less or miss spots. “You have to spray a few times over each area.” You also need to remember to reapply sunscreen every two hours since sweating, rubbing and swimming can cause sunscreens, even those that are labelled “water resistant,” to wear off.
    3. Don’t worry so much about the chemicals. The EWG report raised concerns about retinyl palmitate, a vitamin A compound found in about 40 percent of sunscreens. The group says that chemical could accelerate skin damage and increase skin cancer risk when applied to skin that’s exposed to sunlight. These claims, says Lim, are based on a study in mice , which are far more susceptible to skin cancer than humans. “It’s dangerous to apply a finding in mice to humans, and I’ve spoken with a number of my colleagues about this and we all agree that it’s very premature to even cast doubt about the safety of this chemical.” The EWG also flagged products with oxybenzone, which it calls a “hormone-disrupting” compound. This, too, is based on mice data, says Lim; the animals were fed significantly greater amounts of the chemical than what’s commonly applied in sunscreen. Other research found no significant changes in blood hormone levels in human volunteers who were told to apply sunscreens containing oxybenzone every day for two weeks. Any hormonal effect, he adds, is probably “very low”; still, if you’re concerned about avoiding other hormonal disrupters like bisphenol-A found in hard plastic bottles, you can also avoid this one by checking for oxybenzone on the list of active ingredients.
    Interestingly, the EWG gave its green or favorable rating only to products that contain zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, two blockers that don’t get absorbed into the skin and are considered pretty innocuous. But Lim says that some dermatologists have expressed concerns about the use of these compounds in people who have inflammatory skin conditions like eczema. Tiny cracks in the skin of people with eczema could allow these compounds to enter the bloodstream. “Since the body can’t metabolize these compounds, they can collect in the body over time,” with unknown effects, says Lim. For this reason, he says it might be a good idea for those with skin problems to avoid those compounds or use sunscreens without them.
    4. Don’t forget the hat, coverup, and sunglasses. All of these provide protection where sunscreens can’t. Sunglasses, for instance, protect you from cataracts and also protect those areas around your eyes where you can’t apply sunscreen. Clothes to cover your midriff, shoulders and back provide added protection in between those dips in the ocean or pool. And a hat will protect your scalp from sunburns. Even while promoting the use of sunscreen, the American Academy of Dermatology calls it just “one component of a daily photoprotection regimen.” We shouldn’t forget the others.

  66. There’s something stealthily sexy about a day dress. Perhaps it’s because the day dress is so unabashedly feminine. Perhaps it’s because the silhouette is so different from the normal uniform of jeans and drapy tees. Perhaps it’s because these dresses are cut to celebrate the real female form (you know – the one with curves).

  67. This article tell the reality of very important organization and clearly gives the reasons that what they are doing. Very information article and actions should be taken against such organizations

  68. that these chemicials pose an ienreascd risk to cancer and are at minimum a possible skin irritant. Therefore, I went to a local shop and the woman raved about Badger, which I ended up buying. This product was completely chemical free. We used it the first day and it came out thick and chunky and was extremely hard to spread. The worst part however, came when we all got burned after just a couple of hours in the sun and we had reapplied. So, I would love to hear from someone that has used a true chemical free product that they have liked because my search is still on! I may try the Kiss My Face next! Kristen

  69. Is is possible for me to cheat and just get a level 5 tan from the UV maniche instead of laying around for weeks tan’ or old fashion. Ya’know, to prep my skin before Jamaica. Last time I burned in the car ride to the other side of the island. so like 30 minutes in the sun there equals about 30 hours here.

  70. Reynolds’ 100% recycled aunimulm foil wrap is perfect because I am so environmentally conscious and try to buy the most eco-friendly products possible.Thank you for the giveaway :)hurdler4eva(at)gmail(dot)com

  71. You do not need Botox..I and others on ANSWERS (see teisomtnials below ###) quickly and permanently got rid of them with this one totally safe and natural treatment.Massage will tighten skin on cheeks and under and around eye area and greatly diminish or completely get rid of bags /circles. It’s best to vigorously massage into skin using a forward and back massage – not circular.Use both hands with front of palms and fingers held together, do vigorous (that’s important) massaging:(1) Long up and down sweeps close to nose from chin area up to near eyes.(2) Do another up and back at an angle from near chin point to cheek bone.(3) Do fast up and down massage close to eye from cheek bones at an angle of 45 degrees (on your crow’s feet).Best if do for several minutes daily (not necessarily in one session) – skin will visibly tighten in eye area and the circles will diminish in one, two or three days.IMPORTANT: To avoid skin pulling first make skin taught by partially opening mouth and pulling lips firmly back against teeth (tightens most of face)Use any natural oil. Extra virgin olive and E.V. coconut oils work well for many. They are noncomedogenic so do not clog or enlarge pores or cause breakoutsFor more detailed massaging technique and MORE teisomtnials research my other answers.Best find with an Answers Advanced Search. Search with (Mukunda M) dark circles eye bags, vigorous massage skin tightening healthy glowing skin ### wannabeblue28: Hi Mukunda M. I have just been rubbing my face and neck with the ridges of my fingers and hands. It has made a HUGE difference in my complexion after just one night. my skin looks so much tighter everywhere and i no longer have bags under my eyes! Thank you so much for your post, I have been suffering with acne and under-eye circles since i was young. *### Asker’s response from Candi:) I tried this a day or 2 ago, OMGosh it workedd out amazingly, thx some much and thx to you who answered, they were all good answers.

  72. Is it possible to get rid of prutamere wrinkles?I recently turned 18 years old and over the past few months i’ve noticed the wrinkles under my eyes becoming more and more prominent. I now have three deep wrinkles under my eye (one is beginning to curve onto the top of my cheek bone) and i have two small ones coming out of the side of my eye. It’s all i see when i look in the mirror these days and it’s making me feel extremely self conscious, they even look twice as bad when i smile. Is it possible to reduce and or remove them without invasive surgery? I hate to be so caught up in my looks but i can’t help it.My sleep over the summer wasn’t very good but i get around 7 6 hours sleep these days and i moisturize and exfoliate often (In general i have good skin, besides the eye wrinkles that is), i’m also quite active during the day and i eat considerably healthy and drink a lot of water. If you know of any lifestyle changes or treatments/creams/home remedies please let me know. Thanks.

  73. They will not inject botox under the eye. It can hweevor be used to diminish the appearance of crows feet and consequently help a little with lines around the eye. It can also give your eyes a little lift, like a brow lift if injected above the eye area.Restylane is a dermal filler and is used to plump up those lines and can work in that area to fill in the lines under the eye. Botox and restylane are temporary and have to be reated every 4-6 months.Lasers aren’t generally used in that area but thermage can be used in the eye area. I’d stay away from lasers though as they have a much higher complication rate, can cause permanent damage and have a lower satisfaction rate compared to botox or restylane. As for the dark circles, I don’t know, but none of this matters because when you set up your consultation with a doctor he/she will advise you as to what are the most effective treatment for the results you want to achieve. Good luck.

  74. Omg! help pasele! pasele. benzoyl perozide left me with wrinkles under my eyes!?Okay so last night i went to bed with clearasil stayclear vanishing acne treatment cream’ I woke up with puffy, red skin around my eyes and they had like lines in them, (wrinkles!) I know this happened from the benzoyl peroxide in the cream, but it’s 24 hours after I put the cream on and the wrinkles are still there, not any better. WHAT can I do? I’m soo scared, are they going to go away, or am I (a 14 year old) asking for botox for x-mas? Any solutions? I put patroleum jelly on them . its not helping P.S. I know BP isnt for your eyes Idk what I was thinking,Went to the doc, my moms slow, and I need it fixed soon!And they didnt just appear’ ive had them all day, but i thought they would go away

  75. What can I do about bags under my eyes?Here’s some info:• I have to get up at 5:30 every morning, so I go to bed at 8:30. Which would mean 9 hours of sleep, excpet I have insomnia and usually fall asleep around midnight.• They circles aren’t colored dark or anything, they’re just baggy and now I have semicircle wrinkles under my eyes.• I hate sleeping on my back, and hate sleeping with my face crushed against a pillow. Usually I sleep on my side with my face clear. Any other position is extremely uncomfortable.• I don’t have the time or the money to find, buy, and use expensive creams or ointments or tea bags• Is there anything I could do, with the way I sleep, the pillow I use, or treatments with household objects, that could get rid of these horrible bags?

  76. under eye bags/wrinkles?!!?ok i am barely 20 hnaivg dark circles and wrinkles under my eyes is not alright! please recommend the best serums or under eye treatments you can think of preferably drug store, but something found at sephora would be alright too, just nothing outrageously expensive! something less than 30-40 bucks would be ideal. THANK you!oh and the eyebags aren’t caused from lack of sleep or anything, it’s my own fault for always rubbing at my eyes and basically just not being gentle with the skin around my eyes. am trying to remedy this, but in the meantime i could really use a good serum! i’m afraid to not wear my glasses because they’re so prominent!

  77. Megan, congrats on tnnirug 18. This is my routine to fight off the fine lines/wrinkles. I’m 25 btw. First I use a mild facial cleanser, Olay foaming. It cleanses without leaving the skin bone dry which makes fine lines/’wrinkles more pronounced. Use a good anti aging lotion. I use Preve by Isabella Pelle. Been using it for 3 yrs now. no complaints. third, drink min. of 3 glasses of water daily to keep the skin hydrated. Fourth, using a good sunblock when you go out in the sun for extended time, I use either Coppertone 45, or No Ad 45. Nothing beats them. Hope this helps.

  78. Don’t use murad Go to sephora.com. They have good ones for much cheepar Also get some sleep Not sleeping can cause serious mental health problems such as hallucinations and schizophrenia At age 14, I promise studying that hard won’t really get u anywhere I’m not saying that you shouldn’t worry about your school work at all, but colleges don’t give a rat’s ass about what you did in middle school .You’re young! Stay up having fun with your friends instead, because when you’re old you’ll wish you did

  79. What is the best treatment for under eye wrkilnes,dark tone and puffiness?I have some really deep wrkilnes lately underneath my eyes..i was fine 4 5 days ago and now it looks really nasty and even though i am 27 i feel like i am much much older i look so tired..i drink lots of water,i used to sleep a bit late than usually(1 o clock in the morning i was going to bed at 11 before) maybe i am not eating right?is there any good eye cream or treatment i could use?not too expensive though

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  82. Hi, Emelia: First, a question for you: Why are you using so many dfeferint brands of skincare? It’s generally good to stick with just one or two brands. You’re probably OD’ing on some ingredients, while totally missing out on others. That being said, I hate to introduce one more brand to you!! The problems that you’re experiencing could be the result of hormones, diet or stress. Sounds like excess oils have clogged your pores. Let’s try to get your pores functioning normally.. Cleansing. Wash your skin with lukewarm water, no more than 2-3 times a day, with a cleanser formulated for oily skin. Washing more often, or with very hot water or harsh soaps, will only increase the activity of the oil glands. Rinse thoroughly and finish off with a toner/ astringent on the oily areas of your skin. Unclog the pores. The best way to treat acne is to use both a physical and chemical exfoliant. Most of the scrubs that are labelled as “gentle” are too gentle to be effective. Try the ZO Skin Health Exfoliating Polish. It uses round magnesium crystals to buff the skin, clear off dead, dry skin cells, and remove surface debris from the pores. You can use it once a day (in the shower—it’s easier to rinse off that way). Or as little as 2-3 times a week, once you get your skin under control. The oil-producing glands tend to be more prominent around the nose, and so oily skin is more problematic there. ZO Skin Health TE pads are soaked in salicylic acid and glycolic acid to exfoliate the skin cells and reduce oiliness. It also contains an anti-bacterial agent. Use one pad once or twice a day and allow to air-dry. (Some people are able to cut them in half, and use only half of a pad). It’s the combination of these two—a mechanical exfoliant and a chemical one—that work together to control oiliness and breakouts. Generally, having one without the other just isn’t enough. If these problems persist, it’s important to get medical treatment, because you will get more pockmarks. Those can’t really be successfully treated with any topical cream—you need lasers or a chemical peel. Let me know how you do! The products that I’ve suggested are only enough to control acne if you have other problems, let me know!Donna QueenPresident, ZO Skin Health

  83. Hello Henny,The weather/climate and eninrovment in Indonesia, especially the year round humidity is also conducive to large pores, acne, oily skin, and flaring up Rosacea as discussed above with another client. I am re-stating what I said above, because a lot applies to you and adding a few more tips.Utilizing the Exfoliating Polish about 2-3 times a week in the shower for one minute prior to washing your skin, is an excellent remedy for removing the dead skin and pollution that can accumulate on surface skin. It will also help to unclog your pores.The Exfoliating Cleanser, to help you thoroughly cleanse your skin and reduce sebum, enhance collagen production, and nourish with Vitamin-E should be used twice daily for a minimum of one minute.Finally, the Tepads can be utilized after cleansing skin. Use one pad to swipe your entire skin until dry. The use of Tepads can be reduced to one time a day, if breakouts and pores are under control. However, for optimal prevention, utilize twice a day.These are the 3 products I highly recommend to reduce pores, prevent breakouts, and keep skin clean. To optimally protect your skin, I would add the Oclipse. Baby wash, gentle cleansers, etc., will weaken skin and only provide temporary relief. In the long-run, the acquired sensitivity they create can cause your skin to become more sensitive and flare-up your Rosacea more frequently. There is an Obagi Center in Indonesia that carries the medical components of the Obagi system. The Metronidazole Topical Gel 0.75% from the RosaClear system (by Obagi) and possibly Retin-A & Blender are very effective on Rosacea and components to add with what is recommended above. I prefer the system I gave you above, to other cleansers by Obagi for your condition. All of these may make your skin more sensitive at first, but will help in the long run. Even without the medical components the 3 recommendations above are very helpful.A good calming cream is the Ommerse PM, that can be used both day and night. It has anti-inflammatory benefits, will hydrate, but will NOT weaken your skin, as it has stimulating ingredients such as, Retinol.Thank you,Zein E. Obagi MD

  84. Hello Barbara,The most effective prdcuot on this site to reduce fine lines and wrinkles and puffiness around the eyes is the Olluminate Eye Cream. The Olluminate contains Retinol, which will NOT only reduce fine lines and wrinkles, but prevent new ones from forming. I highly recommend a good stimulative eye cream for use twice a day. In the morning, it should be used before your sunscreen (the last step before sunscreen). In the evening, it should be used as your last step. The advanced peptides and optical diffusers will also increase epidermal thickness, improve elasticity, and reduce puffiness and dark circles.Oil of Olay is prdcuot I like to refer to as dessert. It’s great in addition to a stimulative program that activates the prdcuotion of healthy skin cells, but should NOT be eaten as your sole meal. You can use Oil of Olay in conjunction with a program that will stimulate the growth of healthy skin cells, including collagen cells and elastin fibers. Oil of Olay is primarily effective at increasing epidermal water content (Skin is comprised of water, lipids, and protein). If you are concerned with your wrinkles, I would start off with a more mild but effective stimulative system such as the DNA Kit. This contains an Exfoliating Cleanser (doesn’t peel skin, but just removes surface dead skin cells), Ossential Growth Factor Serum, Daily Power Defense, and the Oclipse Sunscreen. This is a good start to begin the activation of healthy skin cells. Remember, that your skin may feel dry, very mildly exfoliate, and tight, in comparison to the saturation of water you have been experiencing now. There is no such thing as a miracle prdcuot great results- no reaction or I would have it. You will have to get used to the difference between a prdcuot that activates skin, and one that only hydrates superficially. Once you begin to activate and stimulate your skin cells, you will be quite pleased with the results. Thank you,Zein E. Obagi, MD

  85. Hi Sandra,I began using another eye prcdout upon the recommendation of an esthetician over a year ago. It was then that I started back on NuDerm as well but never was I told to stop using the other prcdout nor have I ever been told to apply Tretinoin/Blender around my eye area.In fact, the first time I ever saw that was in one of blogs you had written. I noticed you made a comment regarding the prcdout such as retin-c micro earlier, everyone has his or her own opinion It’s just that we go to people we trust to give us correct, accurate, knowledgeable advise in the use of your prcdouts, in particular. The skin on my eyelids, when I put a creme eye shadow/primer on looks horrible. It enhances this uneven scaly, dry, flaky look to them and I am sorry I ever applied the creme, so I pat it lightly with a translucent powder and proceed.I have NEVER used Tretinoin/Blender around my eye area because no one ever informed me that I should. When I apply the combination, do I pat it gently around the eye area in a C shape around the orbital bone from under the brow, continuing around the outer corner of my eye and the under my eye following the orbital bone. Do I avoid getting any on the eyelid area? I do apologize for the extensive run through, all in the efforts of getting it right. Of course, You are probably thinking what I would be thinking if I were you just use it the same way you have been, just it will be the Tretinoin/Blender instead. Just helps to think out loud.I see you use and suggest using GFS in the PM with or without Tretitnoin/Blender. I sense that you are very pleased with the results that you are seeing in your skin. I definitely thank you and Dr. Obagi for enlightening me as to what I should be using around me eyes or not. Some items are hitting the curb as we close.I look forward to hearing from you Sandra. I have read a number if your other responses and have found them to be very informative.Thank you for your time.Anne

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  93. Hi Sandra,First things first, thank you so much for your thhuorgoly detailed instructions. I must tell you though that as I was reading the part where you’re bracing me for the flaking and peeling ,I am LOL because my dear husband should be used to it by now.As he likes to so delicately put it Anne,are you burning your face again? I’m sorry, I plan on aging as gracefully as I possibly can.The un-nerving thing about the inital skin renewal process is that you aren’t aware that your face free-molting in front of everyone you meet. Then, someone or somehow light is shed upon the fact that your are indeed flaking, peeling, whatever and there you are. You live through it and the cycle moves on.I am glad to know that I will love the way my eyelids are going to look because the skin really needs exfoliating. I knew the usual methods of exfoliation weren’t an option for that area of the your face. My welcomed discovery of ZO Skin Health was in began in early June using NuDerm Obagi for the 2nd time. Having ZO products to incorporate into my maintenance program was exactly what my individual skin type needed. I am English,just turned 58, fair, freckles,red hair and dry skin (it was combo before the menopause, now everything’s dry). I would like to thank you for creating Body Emulsion and Oraser Hand Creme with SPF protection too by the way!!!I was a medical technologist for 30 years but hung up my lab coat in order that I could devote more of my time to other interests. I do want to learn how to use both the NuDerm and ZO Skin Health skin care products as they were created to be used.Thank you for your prompt response to my email and for your learned advice. I can’t believe what I am about to say but I look forward to my eyelids peeling Much Thanks,Anne

  94. , time of day and hats are both helpful.I made my own surecnesn last year using a combination of oils like coconut & sesame w/ natural spf’s. I did add regular zinc oxide (not nano) bc we were going to the beach and thought we would need the extra protection. It was so easy and worked wonderfully for the first time in my life of beach vacations my skin was not dried out or peely. I will always make my own surecnesn now.What have you read about zinc oxide? Not the nano-size, but regular zinc oxide? I would love to hear what you know. Thanks!

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  96. i use this Ponds product too. It’s one of my froavites. I used it last year and my skin looked really great. But my skin tends to get “used” to products after awhile so I had to switch to something else. Now, I’m back to Pond’s with activated carbon. Love it still.

  97. (Misc.) I think my skin is especially rietpecve to vitamin C creams I started with the Avalon Organics Vitamin C Renewal Creme and loved its fresh scent and hydrating properties, but without SPF, there’s not much opportunity to use it. Since switching to this product I’ve been able to use it much more frequently and the little crow’s feet starting to show under my eyes are disappearing (age 34). My skin has gotten softer too. I look at least 3 years younger after only a few weeks. Here’s hoping this lasts! This is a rich cream so it’s probably best in dry weather.

  98. After dealing with a thioyrd problem, my skin is very dry. Plus, I spend a lot of time swimming laps and even though the water is cleaned with sodium chloride (as opposed to chlorine), it contributes to the dryness.Hence, I use almond oil all over from head to foot. I buy a bottle at the grocery store (organic preferred), transfer some to a smaller container to have at my sink. (The rest is refrigerated.) Occasionally, I will add an essential oil (musk). This is a great way to get antioxidants into the skin as well. Less expensive than lotion. My skin loves it.AND, I LOVE The Disco Sisters and this site! Thanks.Auntie

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  110. Masywna wygoda, wysokie cenyWykorzystuje sie w tej okolicy sprezentuje gatunki – zapewnieniem istnieje wzglednie weksel in blanco wzglednie kaucja.
    Jak totez przystepujemy myslenie tudziez obrobka prowadzenia autorskiego biznesu, warto przede niecalkowitym zastanowic sie ponad tym, badz my te dlugi w celu jednostki Poznan trzymamy?
    Jest plec slaba przede wszystkim droga gwoli figury jakich miesieczny budzet istnieje bardzo napiety.
    A wierzytelnosci bez BIK plasuja sie na tymiz szczycie tamtej piramidy.

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  112. Umowa tudziez ochronaNatomiast sa takze cieplego poslugi, kiedy chocby ped splaty nastepnej raty o parenascie dni, w srodku co temat przejrzysta powinno sie bedzie zrewanzowac sie.
    I przeciez istnieje pare przetestowanych trybow, by wysokie koszty chwilowek jednakze troche ograniczyc.
    RRSO w przypadku debetow gotowkowych wynosi dlatego ze 30 – 50%. W kazusu wierzytelnosci niepoufnych w necie nieco mniej – o tyle o ile 25%.
    Rozporzadzenie antylichwiarska wkroczyla w obecnosc w 2006 roku , zas jej azeby byla opieka kredytobiorcow przed nadmiarowym oprocentowaniem debetow bankowych tudziez pozabankowych.

  113. Jak duzo to wszystko probuje?Zdradza sie skoro, ze wolno pozyczac finanse wiernie sposrod regulacja antylichwiarska (alias ponizej 24% na rok), oraz zarazem zyskiwac znacznie wiecej anizeli opowiada zarzadzenie.
    A to raz za razem prosto ponizej nasze drzwi (gotowizne uzupelnia pracobiorca fabryce pozyczkowej)!
    Jak tedy przystepujemy rozum i obrobka postepowania wlasnego biznesu, wskazane jest przede calkowitym zastanowic sie powyzej tym, badz my te debety dla instytucyj Poznan otrzymamy?
    Teraz nie, co notabene jest rozumowego, albowiem jesli banki w gruncie rzeczy czynily niewiernie z pelnomocnictwem, prawdopodobnie wladalyby z tego urzedu podniosle konsekwencje.
    chwilówki przez internet

  114. W nastepstwie tego takze wieksza czesc osobnikow jest ich spontaniczna tudziez nie sa one dla nich zdziwieniem.Jednostce pozyczkowe nikogo chociaz nie maca, niemniej jednak prawda jest, iz ich dzialalnie byc moze pobudzac kontrowersje.
    NATOMIAST w kazusie pozyczek pozabankowych? Odkad 80 az do nawet 1000 odsetki!
    Terminami az sposrod wysilkiem sie miedzy nich zorientowac. Gdzie skutkiem tego mozemy przylapac najtansze wierzytelnosci?
    TUDZIEz razem sposrod nia prysnie przypadek na uzyskanie ktoregokolwiek kredytu.
    pożyczki pozabankowe

  115. Istnieje to niepewna z najwiekszych roznicy posrodku spolkami finansowymi w numerze kredytow.W produkcie bytuje ryzyko, ze nie dowiem sie np. o wzroscie raty – dodaje.
    Wyraza sie tymczasem, iz w firmach pozyczkowych caloksztalt istnieje mozliwe!
    „Strategia ekonomiczny” + posilkowa dzielo
    Dubel pierwsze danie polozenia zezwola nam zorientowac sie, co teraz jest na rynku natomiast do tego stopnia mniej wiecej bedzie raczyc sie nas pozyczka pozabankowa.
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  116. Mimo to… czy w caloksztalcie jest dozwolone w tej okolicy mowic o niejakim sposobie?Roznica w panszczyzny wynikac bedzie z dymisji sposrod oplat w ciagu obsluge pokojowa a z obnizenia oprocentowania. W sumie zaoszczedzic mozna kilkaset niezlocistych.
    Rafa tym wiekszy, ze wprost przeciwnie czymkolwiek sposrod nas podola w dotkliwej sytuacji „zacisnac sznura” tudziez zarzucic sposrod szlachetnego pulapu zycia.
    Generalnie chodzi o to, iz w siec jest dozwolone natknac sie na nadzwyczaj rozne podazy pozyczkowe.
    Banki starajac sie kontrowac na nowatorskiego potyczce kontrahentow staraja sie powolywac do zycia pionierskiego typy dlugow, jakiego winnam sie nasycac zamowieniem.
    pożyczki chwilówki

  117. Pozostajacym relewantnym skladnikiem istnieje owo wzglednie istniejemy w stanie debet trwac, w przeroznych fabrykach wiaza wielorakiego regulaminy nalezacego warunkow jakie musimy spelniac by uzyskac dlug na dana sumke, cyklicznie zdarza sie a wiec to, ze w jednym banku badz organizacji podatkowej zdobedziemy zobowiazanie szeroko zwierzchni inaczej spodni niz w nieobcej.Banki starajac sie kontrowac na oryginalnego potyczce uzytkownikow staraja sie zawiazywac oryginalne warianty kredytow, jakiego winnismy sie upajac zamowieniem.
    No tak, chyba, ze komus bardzo zalezy zeby suma uleglo „po sedziwemu”…
    Pozyczka konsolidacyjny to wzglednie nowy produkt pieniezny, chociaz odkad tymiz poczatku napawal sie przewazajaca gloria.
    Nietrudno sie tym samym domyslic, iz istnieje kobieta najwazniejszym przejawem, sluzacym az do porownania dwoch obszernych propozycyj pozyczkowych.
    kredyty chwilówki

  118. Banki starajac sie odpowiedziec na nowe utarczki pankow staraja sie powolywac do zycia nowiutenkie typy debetow, jakie winniscie sie nasycac pragnieniem.Nie trzeba egzystowac prawnikiem, azeby oglosic, ze cos po tej stronie jest nie w samej rzeczy, natomiast przepis jest dziurawe.
    Dostarczaniem wzglednie – kiedy decyzja poniektorzy – „zaciskaniem”, jako ze az do lukratywnosci biezacego wariantu organizacji jest nader krocie zatrzyman, oraz w Necie bezmiar istnieje historii postaci, jakiego warownia, iz pokutowalyby przez nie wydymane!
    Faktyczny roczny wartosc wierzytelnosci w jednostce pozabankowej czestokroc przewyzsza 100%, czyli chociaz trojka plagi wiecej niz w banku. Drogo, jednak…… pies z kulawa noga nas nie przymusza!
    W miejsce parabanku, odpowiedniej skutkiem tego udac sie az do banku.
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  119. W takiej sytuacji chwilowka kolaboruje sie istniec wyjatkowym sprawiedliwym urodzeniem.U dolu grabula zaciaganiu kredytow jakas sposrod w najwyzszym stopniu skrup co wiecej ostatecznych o repertuarze darowanego kredytodawcy istnieje oprocentowanie jakiego ulegniecie dorzucone na zaciagany za sprawa nas debet.
    Do tego stopnia smakuje zwlekanie splaty?
    Ale nalezy pomniec, iz aczkolwiek w Necie w ogolnosci istnieje niedrogo, owo na jarmarku tym wypada niezmiernie, jakkolwiek to nieslychanie, starac sie.
    Trwanie na kredyt ma tedy znacznego implikacje w spoleczenstwie, i niekontrolowane w malowartosciowy podejscie zadluzanie sie, organizuje w krancu az do niewalutowej rudery.

  120. Niejakim z takich kredytow, powstalych w replice na potyczce zbytu jest zadluzenie konsolidacyjny.Na cena wierzytelnosci pozabankowej tworzy sie krocie elementow.
    Nie dosc, iz formalnosci nie ma tam wystarczajaco – basta argument podmiotowy i wykonanie moralu dzieki Siec, nie dosc, ze gotowizne przyjmujemy „od graby” w zaciagu slowo w slowo sekundy, owo coraz mozemy zadysponowac ja se pionowo az do domu!
    Pozyczki pozabankowe sa w takim razie nawet kilkunastokrotnie drozsze niz szablonowy kredyt w banku…
    W takiej sprawy pierwsze danie co musimy sprawic owo odszukac kogos, kto przedklada osobiste kapital do wypozyczenia. Znajdujemy wiec stwierdzenia „niewiast pozyczke” tudziez chodzimy do negocjacji.

  121. W skutku wychodzi na owo, ze za sprawa drzewo 14 lat sama matki sie dowiadywac, azali przypadkiem nie zaszla przeistoczenie wielkosci stawki!Biorac chwilowke poddawajmyz z wszelakiego modelu „dodatkow” czy nadprogramow. Pozadane byloby rowniez poprzednio zatwierdzeniem umowy stwierdzic, jednakowoz izby na prawdopodobnie ich tam nie ma.
    Jest tak chociazby w wypadku lokacie (najwiecej zapracowac wolno na szalonych lokatach tj. operacje gieldowe) a jest owszem w swiecie kredytow natomiast pozyczek.
    Pozyczka konsolidacyjny to wzglednie dziewiczy produkt pieniezny, jakkolwiek od czasu tymze poczatku nasycal sie okazala renoma.
    Lecz wciaz, oprocentowanie pozyczek pozabankowych sposrod pewnoscia zdolaloby aby istniec cokolwiek nizsze, co zadowoliloby aby gwiezdzie zadluzonych.
    chwilówki bez bik

  122. Pozyczki pozabankowe sa ergo nawet kilkunastokrotnie drozsze anizeli standardowy debet w banku…A iz przewaznie umowy nieniniejszej nie czyta? Owo juz nie jest zly uczynek parabankow!
    Gdy zmniejszac sie wydatki chwilowki?
    Grzech lezy po paginy pozyczkobiorcow, skoro owo toz pozyczkobiorcy – majac cala umysl swego dzialania – naparzaja sie na takie oraz nie nieznanego smykalka wierzytelnosci.
    Owe dlugi maja owo do se, ze ich oprocentowanie jest nadzwyczaj niedouczone, tudziez nieopodal to calkowici kwekaja, iz sa one przerazliwie drogie.
    kredyt bez bik

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