Discussion: Explaining stuff to your children

Whoa. Yesterday was one of the weirdest days in one of the strangest weeks in a long time. I’ve found it to be exhausting, and part of that was dealing with personal sadness (I have several friends who have lost or are in the process of losing loved ones this week). But a big part of it was figuring out how to explain to my kids what was going on.

I had a good conversation with my 4-year-old about the DC Metro crash a few days ago. He had a ton of questions, some of which I couldn’t answer. Then last night the 7-year-old and I spent a lot of time talking about comas and plastic surgery and why adults shouldn’t touch some of your body parts.

I know you all must have been having these same conversations. So I’m hoping we can open up a discussion about how you decide how open to be and how to approach talking to your kids about things. I know someone who didn’t want her children to hear about the netro crash because she thought they were too young to understand, and that’s a valid point of view. I feel like my kids are going to hear things, so I’d rather they hear the facts from me and have the chance to ask questions, which is also a valid POV.

So my question to you is; How do you approach talking to your kids about current events? What are the advantages and disadvantages of your approach? Don’t forget to mention how old your children are, please.

0 thoughts on “Discussion: Explaining stuff to your children”

  1. We listen to NPR, and I’m pretty sure my kids (almost 6 and almost 3) hear it the way Gary Larson portrayed dogs hearing people talk, “blah blah blah.” We do turn it off if they give a violence warning or talk about child abuse.My nearly-3 saw a picture of the metro crash on the computer, and I explained I was sad about it, and he said, “But they were wearing their SEAT BELTS!” I didn’t explain that that wasn’t always enough.
    I’ve had some interesting talks with my 5 year old, including the Barack Obama “But he’s brown!” conversation (note – at the time my kid was attending a school that was majority-minority) and a conversation that came from her catching Oprah talking about having to sleep on the porch as a child in the PBS African-American Lives series (“some people are not kind to children and treat them badly”.) Both of these were when she was 4 – she seems more tuned out now than she was then, interestingly.

  2. I have a 6yo girl, 3yo boy, and 18mo girl. The boy is totally happy in his own little world, and does not really feel the need to let the outside world (including, say, instructions from his parents) intrude on his reality too much. So no big discussions, although he is exposed to way more than his sister because of her being around.The girl, I find I am starting to let her in to scary stuff gradually (like I used to skip scary parts of a Lion King book that we have, and then changed it to “hurting” and then to killing). I think that what allows me to do that is that we have no tv, or newspaper. All of our news is either internet or radio, and one she can’t read, and the other is mostly when she’s not around, or as total background noise to her. When something is really being talked about a lot, then we discuss it with her, and what I find is that if I am matter of fact, she takes it as matter of fact, and doesn’t get too spooked. Sometimes she wants to rehash the way I framed it for her a bunch of times, but I try to always frame it on her level. She knows a lot of bible stories, and they have a lot of bad guys hurting good guys themes (to be simplistic since I have my 3 plus 2 sleep overs eating breakfast downstairs), which originally I really didn’t want to introduce her to, but I find are safe ways to talk about good and evil, and then real life good and evil, presented gradually, have not been terribly traumatic. Also, she is a very cautious child, so that has affected our “stranger danger” talks. She doesn’t need to hear warnings more than once to really internalize that kind of stuff. That being said, anyone know how to do the birds and bees gradually, it seems like all or nothing to me?
    All this to say, I think I shelter her from a lot of it, so that I can introduce it to her gradually. I do the same with a lot of popular culture types of things, I think our culture pushes kids to grow up a little too fast. I know the younger ones will be exposed to things earlier, so I will see what I will do with that.

  3. Data points: girl (5) and boy (3)It’s funny, I’m finding that our upcoming move is precipitating changes in how I talk about things. Like guns, for instance. My kids like to pretend to shoot things. I have no idea where they got this (not from me, and not, I’m guessing, from PBS Kids). So up until yesterday, I would kind of rail on about how guns hurt people, and shooting isn’t nice. Yada yada.
    But: we’re moving somewhere where guns, while perhaps not more common than the US, are not concealed. There are young soldiers in uniform all over the place–with rifles; indeed, they will be conscripted for some kind of military service at the proper age. People carry guns for personal protection because they may live or work in dangerous areas. Every group field trip into NATURE requires a person who is a combo of (literally) a medic and an armed guard.
    So. I am having to reframe my perspective on guns. My discussion with them yesterday was about how guns are still dangerous, but sometimes people need to have them. Those people have to have permits and training and LOTS of practice to prevent accidents because guns are dangerous.
    I’m sure this is only the beginning.

  4. Oh, and as for current events, they’re not really aware of all that much if we don’t watch it on TV. I was watching a lot during the election, so they know that Barack Obama is the president, but I don’t talk to them about plane crashes and celebrity deaths and things. It helps, for now, that my older one tends towards the oblivious. We do, from time to time, talk about how to behave around strangers (etc.), but that tends to work her into a lather.

  5. My kids are 4.5 and 2.5. The little one is still pretty young for much of what we discuss with my older child, but she is usully there so at least hears what we are talking about, which probably is a good start.Firstly, we do not watch much tv in our house, although the kids do watch their own dvds. The news gets put on at 7.00, but we can switch off the image and so they only hear the news, but my kids Italian is not so developed so they probably understand very litle, if not anything.
    We did not shelter my 4 year old when the earthquake happeneed here recently and we talked about how lots of people died (a concept he has started to ‘understand’ recently)and were made homeless. He saw people in tents and damaged houses and cars and was curious and seemed to be moved by the plight of those left without homes. I have started talking about elections ( European and local elections here)as there are loads of how to vote posters up near my son’s kindergarten. That has led to some ‘discussions’ about immigration ( one of the posters shows boat peopel piled onto a ship)and he has come up with some profound ideas like, ‘people should be allowed to immigrate to Italy if they have no food to give their children back home’. Not exactly his words, but the sence was that.
    Re. his own body. Well, this is a daily discussion really. When I’m giving him a daily ‘bidet’, I tell him that his penis belongs to him and only he, my husband and myself ( also nana and his doctor) may touch it to keep clean or inspect if it is sore. No one is allowed to touch him if he doesn’t like it or want it, not even his two year old sister, who always tries to grope him down there. He now actully tells her he doesn’t want her to touch him there, so the idea is getting in.
    I don’t normally bring things up out of the blue, but if he asks me about something, I try to talk about it in very simple terms that he can understand.

  6. @ flea: What is this mysterious NPR of which you speak?Any time I have a 2 or 3 year old in the car, s/he is a radio tyrant. Seriously, when I need to listen to AM radio traffic reports (in NYC and surrounding metro this is ALL THE TIME, nights, weekends, middle of the day, whenever) there is such bitching you would not believe. Yesterday I didn’t want to deal with the headache and wound up in traffic and late to meet another Moxie-ite.

  7. Are people really talking about the DC Metro crash? Maybe it’s a geography thing because it did make the news for 10 seconds in Chicago, but we’re talking about other things here.Death is very matter-of-fact in our house. So-and-so died. The 4-uear old has been to a visitation and saw Great Uncle Bud in the casket so he has a general sense of what death is. We usually follow the “why” up with so-and-so had a good long life or it was time for their life to be over (so as not to freak him out about mommy or daddy possibly dying).
    We’re all about strangers right now. He looks out our picture window at the people walking dogs on the sidewalk and asks if they are strangers. Yes. Why? Because we don’t know them. So, we’re about strangers now. I’m not sure how to segue strangers into people we know marginally aren’t supposed to…. Also, I have this whole hang up of my own about talking to strangers. I don’t. Generally speaking, as an adult, I do not talk to people I don’t know. Not in line at the store, not on the street, not at the park, very occasionally, and only minimal words like “How old is she?” and “Yes, it is rainy.” So, I think I am modeling the don’t talk to strangers part just fine, but now I need to throw in how to talk to strangers (to ask for directions, help if you get lost, order at the deli, buy shoes, and so on). The 4-year old is very shy (and why people feel the need to comment on this, I do not know…way to make a shy kid self-conscious).

  8. I totally agree with Anna about having to make those judgments based on the kid. I constantly redact books to remove or modify violence, scariness, rudeness, stereotyping etc. Now that my daughter is 5.5 I do less and less of it, but still quite a lot. I’m starting to worry about when she starts to read to herself and a) discovers I’ve been editing all this time and b) exposes herself to all of the above without me in the middle. Ah, the glories of letting go…As for current events, she’s fairly shielded from it all – we have no tv and I don’t listen to much radio news when she’s around. Honestly it’s frequently upsetting for me, and while some of what freaks me out would undoubtedly go over her head, not everything would and there’s no way to know when it’s going to happen. She was very aware of the election and we talked about it quite a lot, still with me shielding her from the nastier elements of the campaigns.
    What I’ve read about the birds and the bees is to answer all the questions the kids ask without giving more information when they ask. For quite a long time, she was happy with the explanation that the daddy puts a seed in the mama’s tummy and a baby grows in there until it’s ready to come out. More recently she asked how he puts the seed in there, and I answered that the seeds (I think I clarified that they’re called sperm) come from his penis and he puts his penis in the mama to let them get to the egg. She was a bit incredulous, but accepted it and didn’t ask anything else at the time. I’m sure more questions will come later.
    I worry that I don’t give her enough information, shield her too much and that she’ll be past asking me before I think she’s ready to hear about sex and violence and all the seaminess there is to learn about. But she’s *5* and I can’t bring myself to destroy her innocence earlier than necessary. All this is based on the kid I have, who is sensitive and perceptive and reluctant to share her deeper feelings, so I don’t want to freak her out and have her not want to tell me she’s freaked.

  9. As far as current events, she’s not exposed to much. I can sometimes listen to NPR when the kids (4.5 yo girl and 16-month-old boy) are in the car. Local television news makes me spit and throw things at the TV so we don’t watch it. We get the paper such as it is, but she doesn’t read yet.Having a religious belief that encompasses the soul going to heaven to be with God and the body staying here has helped us explain death to her. My grandmother and mother in law died within days of each other last fall. Since then, I have noticed that she flips out if we say we’re getting old so we try to stay away from that now. A few months after the funerals, she had a few days freakout about her daddy or I dying. I explained to her we try to take care of ourselves and eat healthy food and exercise at the Y so we could be around for a good long time, and that neither of us were planning on dying until she was a mommy and had kids of her own, and that there would always be someone to take care of her no matter what.
    As far as the stranger danger thing –that’s a tough one. She’s super outgoing with other kids and I don’t want to scare that out of her, so for example at the park I just tell her to stay where I can see her. A TV show actually gave me an idea about how to approach the “adult you know” issue, which is after all much more likely to be an issue than a stranger: I tell her that she is never ever ever supposed to go anywhere with any adult except for me, daddy, or her grandparents unless we specifically tell her it’s okay, and WE have to be the ones to tell her it’s okay, even if the person who wants her to go somewhere tells her we said it’s okay. And if any adult does something that makes her feel sad or uncomfortable to tell us no matter what. I don’t know how much she listens, she tends to roll her eyes (already!! yes!! The teen years are going to be a BLAST!!) but I hope something is getting through.

  10. @AmyinMotown – I KNOW, what is it with the preschool eyerolling and snotty “whatever”??I’m not so good on the stranger danger… I’ve approached the topic obliquely some, but I need to get more explicit. I don’t really know how to bring it up – answering questions I can handle, but I don’t really know how at the breakfast table or whatever to say, “So, P, apropos of nothing, don’t get in a car with anyone unless I say it’s ok”. Any guidance on how to bring it up, literally, is welcome (Can you tell I come from a family of noncommunicators?).

  11. Re: Stranger DangerOur preschool had KidPower as a speaker last year. It was very well received. They run workshops, have a book, and have articles available (free) online.
    Sadly, I missed the talk. Hopefully we’ll have them back next year.

  12. I’m so glad to read there are others who have made the “no-TV” choice … I feel like a lunatic among my friends when it comes up.Anyway, that’s how we’ve addressed ‘exposure’ in our house — our approach is very much like @maria’s (Which I have noticed is true about a lot of things!). I figure the world will intrude soon enough. My policy is sheltering & filtering all the way. Of course, I can say/do this pretty easily with a 2.5 y/o and a 9 month old.
    Questions (very few so far) are answered in developmentally appropriate language and (I hope) earlier than they will come up otherwise. I always *want* to be the first to address stickier topics, so I will probably continue to err on the side of early preemptive explanation.
    FWIW, we’ve subscribed to Sirius/XM at home and the Book Radio and talk stations have filled the TV void for the adults really well. Highly recommended.

  13. @maria…she hasn’t asked the question!!! I am waiting and waiting. She has 2 younger siblings, and younger cousins, and has not asked anything. We discuss their birth stories I felt pain, went to the hospital, etc., but she has NEVER asked HOW or WHERE or any such details. I wait with baited breath for those questions, and the ones I get instead..oy.

  14. oh, and @MrsHaley…the internetdvds have plenty to keep everyone busy, with a much higher level of mindfulness, I have found. But now I want to check out sirius too….Other no-tv moms: My 6yo likes a lot of “babyish” tv(on dvds, netflix, grandma’s house,etc), even though she is very mature and adultish at times. I think it’s nice, but she has started to feel a little weird at school about it, so I have let go a little. I’m curious to hear other’s experiences as kids get older.

  15. @MrsHaley, thanks for the support and encouragement.@Anna, I am probably reticent to a fault in waiting for questions before I answer them (see above post re: stranger danger…) but I’d continue to wait. I think the question will come… but trust your gut! You could gently ask it for her, “Did you ever wonder how the babies got into the mama’s tummy?” at some appropriate moment. Maybe her response will give you some clues about how much information to present and in what form.

  16. Hehe, @Anna, I guess we both have a lot on this topic today! My daughter also still likes the younger shows (I don’t let her watch a lot, an occasional dvd) and I encourage this – I think so much of so-called “children’s” programming is way too mature developmentally for the age it’s supposed to target. She is 5.5 and likes Blue’s Clues, Dora, Calliou. I have purposely indoctrinated her against Spongebob as I think that is unequivocally NOT a children’s show.

  17. We don’t watch TV either. When 8 yo goes to my cousins house, they always watch one video before her little ones’ nap, and she gets to join in. She is SO SO excited about watching Blues Clues. I occasionally wonder what will happen if she mentions this at school.On the other hand, she reads at 7th grade level and is a total bookworm. It is super tough finding books that meet her language sophistication but are still thematically acceptable, especially as she is very innocent and young for her age in a lot of ways (see above, Blues Clues in 3rd grade).
    She does NOT want to know where babies come from or how they get there, although I have decided that I have to fill her in this summer. Who knows what stories she could be hearing elsewhere…

  18. Kate! Mazal tov! moving to Israel? ;)Good luck with your reframing. We had a relative whose policy, when the kids were all in the service and required to carry their arms with them at all times, was, “no guns in the living room.”

  19. We basically try to answer questions simply–we followed the “each question as it’s asked” thing with the birds and bees until the Big Question (how does the daddy part get into the mommy?) was asked at a stoplight when Mouse was a little over 4. I gave her the ten word version, asked if she wanted to know more, and bought her the classic “Where did I come from” which she absolutely loves.She saw some footage of the DC train crash–we explained that there had been a very bad accident and talked about how we all try to prevent these things and we’re mostly very safe. We also talked about how a famous singer had died and a lot of people were sad about that. I got her to watch a lot of the election with me last fall–so many interesting lessons there with Hilary’s concession speech (what a classy way to lose something you really wanted etc.), the question of Barack’s race. That was tough–we’ve never talked about people as X or Y race, just so-and-so has medium brown skin, yours is kind of pinky beige, so and so’s is a really pretty color isn’t it. So the idea that our country has a long history of light-skinned people (like us) treating dark-skinned people horribly was very weird to her. But important. We stumbled along with the simple versions–she’s going to an elementary school with a social justice focus from kindergarten on, so I’m hoping they will help us once that starts in the fall.
    @No-TV folks, I was raised that way until I was 14. I wish I could say I thought it was a good idea, but my sister and I had real social struggles throughout elementary and you could say, even now in her case. Our parents were pretty intransigent about it, so the fact that we couldn’t help act out the latest commercial (I know!) was complicated by the fact that we had been taught to say TV rots your brain, etc. They also wanted us to refuse TV at other people’s houses, routinely wrote excuse notes if school asked us to watch a sports game or cultural event on TV, etc. That was definitely way over the line as I think of it now, but I always clung to what my parents told me, which was that it made me smarter…really didn’t shake that until I fetched up at my ivy league college and discovered hundreds of people who had had full access to popular culture their entire lives and were *at least* as smart and thoughtful as me.
    I totally get the impulse to keep certain influences out of your home, and shelter kids from the worst of the violence, sexism, commercialism etc. Those things are important to me too, but I’ve decided to try to do it by just filtering, restricting time, and talking a lot about what we see. I’m OK with her seeing some things that I wouldn’t explicitly choose, or that aren’t totally age-appropriate, as long as we talk about it. If you choose to address it by keeping TV out of your home, I think it’s really worth strategizing for the elementary years. Those were the worst of it for us and they had lasting effects, especially on my shy sister who found it much harder to pick up the skills of influencing a social context when she was already starting from a hard position. (We both spent years watching re-runs after school once we finally did get a little black-and-white, soaking up the cultural references that we had missed.) I would definitely have liked more help on developing other responses to “let’s play land of the lost–you be so and so” besides “I don’t know who that is” and “I’m not allowed to watch that”. Acting classes that I took in high school helped tremendously, but I think there could have been more done earlier. Just a thought.

  20. My sons are 9 and 4. We’ve always just tried to explain things simply and honestly when they (mostly the 9 year old) ask questions.Unfortunately, when my oldest was 5, my brother in law died, and last year, both of my husbands parents died, so we’ve had a lot of discussions and practice with dealing with death. I forced myself to answer the questions gently and truthfully no matter how much my “don’t talk about death taboo” was screaming in my head. I think it really helped him understand and hopefully, his taboo won’t be as strong.
    I haven’t quite gotten to “the penis actually goes inside the vagina”, but will when he asks.
    He hears a lot about politics, and again, we try to lay out a simplified version. Here’s why people are talking about this, here’s what the republicans think should happen, here’s what democrats think should happen, here’s what daddy and I think, what do you think? And, occasionally, here’s why that pundit is a crazy person. 🙂

  21. @Charisse – Your perspective has TOTALLY been part of our discussion about No TV because my husband had a very similar experience to yours. We’ve decided we will probably ‘turn it back on’ when the children are school-aged (maybe 2nd grade?) so they can amass the necessary cultural fluency. I think by then they will understand enough that we will be able to help them think critically about what they watch.Right now, our reasons have more to do with early brain development (see: “What’s Going on in There?,” “Consuming Kids” and “Last Child in the Woods”) rather than with unsavory content.

  22. I will say that our almost-3-year-old son’s current favorite book is “The Hobbit” -the old Disney read-and-play-the-record paperback version designed for 7–10 year olds, that used to belong to my husband.I worried that it would be too scary (captured by goblins, Gollum! who sneaks up and people and eats them, a fire-breathing dragon that gets shot with an arrow and drowned). I soft-pedaled a lot of the stuff the first few times, but my husband read it verbatim (with gusto) and the kid LOVES it.
    Great. another baby nerd.

  23. @ Charisse – I think it can go either way. I was raised without TV and didn’t have a feeling of deprivation or feeling out of it culturally. If my kids tell me it is causing problems for them at school, I guess we might have to think more about it, but until then, it is working for us. On the other hand, I don’t expect them to criticize other children for watching TV when they talk about it.

  24. For those of you who assume non-readers are not noticing what’s in the paper, don’t they see the photos? We have a constant stream of questions about what happened and why people are acting/feeling the way they are in the pictures. I think it is great. We don’t watch TV news (although we do watch some TV) but I am always happy to see a discussion sparked by something my kids (6yo girl and 5yo girl) notice in the paper, or that we point out to them. The ones they ask about are usually something bad, so we talk about why the police are shooting at people in Iran, or why someone is so sad when their family member was killed in Iraq. We talked a lot about the election and how unfortunate it is that people thought we should decide who could be our president because of skin color or gender. In terms that make sense to them, of course.The danger issues are harder. But when they have “armed intruder” drills at school, we talk about risks that kids face, and the balance between trying to keep them safe and letting them learn about the world. I regularly talk about saying no if someone does something or touches you in a way that makes you uncomfortable, and choosing friends and relationships with people who make you happy and who are nice to you. I know some of it doesn’t mean much to them now, but I hope as my girls grow they will know that they can take care of themselves and make good choices.

  25. Wow, I’m not a complete minority here! My 5 & 8 yo boys hear NPR and yes, flea, they listen. I’ve got to be conscious of what they’re hearing because they absorb more than I first thought. We have no kid TV either, but if they ever ask for a show I’ll let them watch it. I’ve found that having Newsweek on the coffee table starts more conversations than anything else. Even the one who can’t read flips through the pictures.I try to figure out how much they’ve heard/read and then how much they WANT to know. When I got to the “how the dad gives the sperm to the mom” part, my then-7yo said, quickly, “oh, I didn’t know that part” and changed the conversation. We’ll revisit it. On the other hand, his brother picks the Its Not the Stork book off the shelf and offers it to unsuspecting babysitters!
    I don’t tell them about events that don’t touch our lives. They hear about Iraq because a neighbor is coming home. They hear about strangers because we’re in an airport. They don’t hear about the DC crash because we aren’t there and they don’t know anyone who is. I have not filled them in on 9/11 yet either.

  26. Just a note on the whole “stranger-danger” thing: I have been shocked and saddened for a long time by how no one talks to each other at all in the US. (raised overseas–live in the NE) I know, it’s a cultural thing, but still very hard for me.I recommend the book Protecting the Gift, which encourages us to see strangers for what they are: 99% good people we don’t know yet, and then how to tap into that 99% as a way of mutual protection in society, for us and our kids. It talks about helping kids to know who is safe to talk to, how to talk to them and still stay safe. I like this perspective b/c it seems less like “Everyone is dangerous and scary and the only way to be safe is to cloister ourselves.” I agree with the author that this is really the way to isolation, which = MORE danger in many cases.
    Other points are: If you’re lost, talk to a lady; don’t go looking for a policeman (people in uniform all look the same to a little kid, and hey, that’s a great way for a bad/dangerous person to lure a lost kid), etc etc.
    Oooo, I may have hopped on a soapbox here b/c I was so traumatized when I arrived int he US for college and no one would hardly make eye contact.
    Oh, my DS is 2, and when people say “hi” or whatever, I am already saying things like “it is ok to talk to this lady because mommy is right here.” or “If you can’t find mommy you can find a nice lady like this one to ask for help.”
    The other point in the book is to teach kids to listen to their own instincts about others–that the ‘gut’ is very valuable, so if DS really acts skeeved, I just go with his gut, rather than forcing him to be sociable if he just doesn’t want to. Out of earshot, I even validate these feelings “You don’t HAVE to talk to anyone that makes you uncomfortable.” Yes, this even applies to family. Most molestation etc is from people familiar to the child, so I’m ok with not differentiating between strangers and even relatives you don’t want to talk to. Hey, who knows, I may be blocking some signal about Uncle Ted, b/c I’ve trained myself to for adult social reasons.
    I guess I”d say my goal is that my kids be sociable in a smart/intuitive way and use that to their advantage to increase their safety. Now, how to get there. . . hmmm

  27. We are definitely of the sheltering style here. My boys are 4 and they had no TV up until abotu 3 1/2. We finally let them start watching one movie, once a week as part of their Christmas Advent daily activities (we did those rather than candy). It was amazing how fast the once a week turned to a daily movie which is where we are now. It kind of makes me sad as it is like the TV has already taken on this life.We are pretty much no TV, except the boys have watched a couple college football games, the Rose Parade, etc. I know it will increase as they get older but for now we’ve been able to limited it substantially. I should caveat this with the fact that the boys are not yet in preschool (when I know it will be tougher to shelter them somewhat).
    Long post but I guess I’m finally getting to the actual post topic – it is amazing how little you have to explain when there is no TV. We haven’t had to explain train crashes (at least real ones), or music starts dying young, or cancer, etc.
    As for personal space, we’ve tried to keep it open so they feel comfortable with their bodies and haven’t made any part feel more special than another. Eventually (sooner rather than later!) I know I need to have the talk about not letting other folks tough their privates. For now, the biggest question we’ve had is when one of the boys gets a hard on and doesn’t understand why it is happening and why he can’t push it down. And, they’ve now (especially one) has become fascinated with my boobs – why I have them, why boys don’t, etc. We’ve made them functional – they are there so mommies can have kids and then feed them.

  28. almost 4 year old girl hereshe saw the news yesterday, but they were playing so much of his music, that she was up and dancing, she had no concept that he died or anything.
    She doesn’t watch much TV other than some PBS or Disney movies.. so not too many questions yet.
    She usually will say hi to most ppl, and I have to constantly say that we can say hi to people, but we don’t need to tell everyone EVERYTHING about ourselves (i.e. at the grocery store checkout line)… She’s getting better about that, but as she gets older we need to talk more about strangers and the possible issues that she’ll encounter.

  29. We listen to NPR in the car, and I know my daughter (3.5) listens because she’ll pipe up with questions or comments about what they are talking about.We are a no-TV house, but that’s mostly because neither I nor my partner really like TV. We don’t spend the money on cable and haven’t bothered to hook up the converter box my FIL gave us. We put Netflix on hold because we had discs for months at a time without watching them. I’m certainly not going to spend money and time on something I don’t like doing so my kids “fit in.”
    We talk a little bit about where babies come from (which so far has not involved really any talk of sex). She was totally unable to understand why I couldn’t tell her where her baby brother was before I got pregnant with him, but it’s kind of hard for me to grasp that there was a time when my kids just…weren’t.

  30. @charisse..I appreciate your perspective very much. I like the idea of finding ways of helping kids compensate without completely giving up those values. It is all very thought provoking for me, because the truth is, we have to a certain extent opted out of the mainstream culturally. We are a Sabbath observing, keeping kosher, Jewish School going, Rabbi as father kind of family, and that is a choice I made as a teenager, that I liked this world that I have chosen better than mainstream culture. That being said, we obviously do partake in what we think is beneficial of culture (hello, internet!), and it happens to be that socially my kids are not in a total bubble. Their school is fairly diverse for a Jewish school, and they have had to, and will continue to have to navigate the differences as they go along. But, they are not the ONLY ones left out, it’s more like there is a range of things going on in people’s homes, and different kids have different references.@ maria..I completely agree re:spongebob. I saw spongebob once at an amusement park on a huge screen with those seats that move, and it made me so nauseus (it didn’t help that I was pregnant)so I really am biased. Suffice it to say that all the dvdsyoutubenetflix do not include spongebob EVER. I was once delayed by myself on a runway for 4 hours with 2 kids aged 3 and 0. I BEGGED her to watch spongebob!

  31. Ah, the TV debate. We eventually came down somewhere in the middle. The research I saw was most convincing for babies, not for older kids, so we decided to go with the “all things in moderation” approach. Pumpkin (now 2) didn’t see much of anything until she was about 1. At that point, we started using the signing time DVDs, which she loooooved. Now she has those DVDs and a few others, and gets to watch PBS kids in the morning while we’re trying to get everyone ready and out the door. That started because the TV did an excellent job of distracting her so that we could get her sunscreen on her.I grew up with TV, but some rules on what I could watch. Hubby grew up without TV. He didn’t mind, but his sister did. I think the difference is that he was already trending into the “nerd” culture as a young boy, and so TV mattered less to his friends.
    Since Pumpkin’s only 2, I haven’t had to explain much to her yet. I know that’s coming. It should be interesting, given my Hubby’s tendency to make jokes about everything. The poor girl may end up with some very strange explanations.

  32. Hm, it’s interesting how this thread got so into TV. I guess it provides a conversation starter for some topics…When I was a kid, we got a tv when I was about 5, but just had pbs until my teen years. It was not really a big influence, just something to do when we were sick. Now, I just hate TV, it’s so irritating to me. The only thing my family watched lately was the NBA playoffs, and that was on grandpa’s tv. (yay lakers!)
    As far as my daughters, (2.5 and 6 weeks), I’m kind of a tell-all mom. I think, like the earlier threads here about death, lobsters and open caskets, (not all at once, necessarily!) children’s attitudes are mostly based on our reactions to issues. We have frank conversations about all sorts of things with our 2.5 y.o. , and she seems to have the language skills and understanding to deal with them.
    These are all based on things that directly affect her, though, so I don’t really have to explain global politics or anything yet… Just greatgrandpa’s death, religious topics (she is SO into God right now! I think I’m raising a spiritualist), birth etc. Her daddy loves to tell her dramatic, sometimes scary stories, and she soaks it up!

  33. My daughter limits herself about these things. She turns off the radio when she hears something “inappropriate,” (i.e. scary). She’s eight. She says she’s kind of a babyish kid for her age, and I know what she means, but really she’s sensitive and has a lot of empathy, so news can be hard for her. I do not listen to NPR when I’m with her for this reason.However, learning to read does change things. We went to a friends house right after she learned to read, and went into the bathroom. I turned around to see her staring at a 1960’s poster of Keith Richards wearing a T-shirt that said, “Who the fuck is Mick Jagger?” “What does that mean?” she asked. So much for sheltering! (I explained the dynamics of the Rolling Stones, not the f word.)
    We also have a 16 month old boy. We let both kids watch TV, because my husband didn’t have a TV as a kid and had an experience similar to Charisse’s. And we let the kids, both of them, watch Spongebob. The 16 month old said Spongebob as one of his first words. He loves it, although I’m not sure why. I have thought that maybe we’ll need to take a break when he starts to understand the content but doesn’t get the satire yet. We’ll have to see. Our daughter seems to get the satire and watch it in a way that does not concern me.
    As far as sharing scary or negative information, I always struggle to keep it age appropriate and not too negative. My weakness is to tell too much bad news, or start at an early point in world history and explain until my daughter’s face is totally glazed over. My husband is better and quick and simple explanations.

  34. Oooh, I also learned something here at Ask Moxie about talking through my own emotions with my kids, which is right in line with my tendency towards full disclosure… So, when I get frustrated about a situation, I say “Gosh, I feel really frustrated! When I’m frustrated, I like to talk about it” etc. It really helps model good techniques of handling hard emotions, while they aren’t actually feeling them.

  35. @stillbecoming – Have you been to Southern California yet? Can’t go anywhere without having a conversation with a stranger.

  36. @stillbecoming – The South is also very friendly, as are many small county towns (especially in the South). I’ve found the NE (my mom is from there and I have a ton of family up there) and major cities to be less friendly to strangers. Unless you run into me or my dad. We talk to anyone! 😉

  37. Amen, stillbecoming. We way overdo the idea of “stranger danger” in the U.S., and it’s amazing to see how much freer kids are in other places in the world. Incidentally, our crime rate now is as low as it was in 1970, so the idea that “we just can’t do that these days” if it’s something we could do when we were kids, well… just doesn’t fly. I haven’t read Protecting the Gift yet – glad you mentioned the title, as I’d like to soon.Also, the northeast has a reputation for being very closed. That might not be the right word, but it seems very much to have a “no idle talk with random people” culture. The upper Midwest, where I live, is also very friendly.

  38. RE: sexual abuse prevention, Stop It Now is a great site: http://www.stopitnow.com/ They definitely address the “it’s not usually a stranger” part of the problem, and have a lot of good info on how adults can recognize and respond to a risk situation.One of the posters near the top of the comments used phrasing that I just want to highlight: “No one is allowed to touch…” is supposed to be a much better way to say it than “Don’t let anyone touch your…” because the latter means the kid could feel at fault.

  39. @sheltering mama- I came home from work today and saw my well-loved collection of children’s book and remembered your post about your 3rd grade daughter reading at 7th grade level, and the problem of finding appropriate books. Have you tried Anne of Green Gables? I first read that in grade school, although I can’t remember exactly when. I also remember loving books by Lloyd Alexander (especially the Prydain Chronicles). And those “solve it yourself” mystery books. I think they were called Encyclopedia Brown?Regardless, a good children’s librarian could help you find books. That’s what my parents did when we were kids. My dad was a (reference) librarian, so the children’s librarian was also a family friend.

  40. I have a daughter who is 4 and a son who is nearly 3. They see very little on television other than PBS Kids or the occassional sports event. We also use Netflix. DD will not watch anything she deems scary- so no Disney movies whatsoever.We do talk about all sorts of things, in fairly simple terms, but frankly. We have had several discussions about death relating to her great grandparents. We are religious so a lot of the discussion has been from a perspective centered on faith/spirituality. She has made several declarations that she isn’t going to die ever. Some of those were tearful, others angry. I think I’ve just said that I could see how she feels that way, that lots of people don’t want to die ever and that she’s unlikely to need to be too concerned for a long time. We seem to have moved on for the time being to other weighty questions.
    DS is unconcerned about his mortality, somewhat unfortunately.
    We did talk about the Metro crash, since we live in DC and ride Metro. I told them a little about the accident- a train ran into the back of another. At the time, we didn’t know that people had been killed, so I said that people had been very badly hurt. We then talked about how most accidents are small accidents and what we do to stay safe and keep others safe when we’re on the Metro.
    Finally, since we live in the city, we walk and take public transportation. Most of our outdoor playtime is spent in parks or other public spaces. We talk to strangers all of the time. I know they’ve seen me cut off communication that I felt was inappropriate and seen me be fairly assertive in some situations. My attitude until recently was that I felt they were young enough that I should always be very close by- within a few feet at least while at the park. I seldom take them anywhere out of the stroller. When they are out of the stroller and we’re moving, if they aren’t holding my hand, they are holding hands with one another. I am starting to talk more with my daughter about making sure she stays within bounds at the park, that she’s never to leave anywhere we are without me (or the person who is responsible for her), and that if she’s lost or uncomfortable and can’t find the responsible adult, she should find a woman that she thinks seems nice and ask her for help. Although I pretty much have taken this approach from the beginning, I recently read Protecting the Gift, and really appreciated the reinforcement as well as additional ideas/thoughts. And since they bathe together we have – ahem – had ample opportunity to talk about private parts and who is allowed to touch whom.

  41. Kids are 9, 7, and 2. NPR is on *every* morning… I’m certain it’s the “blah, blah, blah” they hear because when I ask them about certain stories they have no clue what I’m discussing. We are also big on the TV news here, so they see a lot. I’ve always just been open and honest about what they see. My husband and I are both historians, so we say a lot of “Remember this… this is history in the making! You’ll tell your grandkids about this!” They roll their eyes.Tell me how to start the sex talk with the 9 yr old boy. I bought the book, _Where Did I Come From?_ because it’s the book I had as a child. But he and I were both laughing so hard when reading about the body parts (we are anything but a modest home, but those pictures!) that I stopped the book b/c I felt I wasn’t bringing the appropriate gravitas to the situation. Suggestions?

  42. I think some of it is age-related. We recently watched “The Rescuers” with our 5-y-o, and the plotline involves an orphan who has to go down into a cave to get a diamond for an evil woman, and some mice who rescue her, and the girl gets adopted by good parents in the end. This led to a barrage, and I do mean a ***BARRAGE***, of questions about children without parents and about adoption (I hate it that this is her introduction to the subject, but there it is). We watched this a couple months ago and it still comes up from time to time. So my point is, endless questions about something can be age-related, regardless if it’s related to current events or not.We’re medium shelterers, I guess — she doesn’t watch a ton of TV, and what she does see is PBS for kids or kid DVDs, and we usually watch together. Our family does enjoy televised sports, and we’ve talked about ads– so much so that when they come on she’ll say, “they want us to buy that car,” or whatever.

  43. I am more convinced than ever after reading all these posts that each kid is different. My daughter would never never be able to stand the plotline you describe for The Rescuers. She had to turn off The Muppets Take Manhattan, for crying out loud, because the song where they’re all going their separate ways was too sad for her! But she has endured the loss, either complete or partial, of a lot of people already in her short life, and it obviously touched something in her.I had How Babies Are Made to explain it all to me when I was a kid. I have no idea how it would come across to me now, but I think it was pretty useful at the time (I remember reading it at maybe 8 or even 10 years old. I may have first had it at a younger age; not sure).
    I too am interested that this discussion of “explaining stuff to your children” has become so much about tv. It reinforces my belief that tv has a lot of responsibility for kids growing up too fast. Knowing too much too soon with little real life context seems so treacherous.
    The topic of ‘fitting in’ and HAVING to watch television in order to be able to socialize is scary to me. As an adult, I don’t really watch television – the Daily Show and a couple other random series that I semi-keep up with on the internet is about it. I am completely ignorant of ALL reality tv, Lost, Housewives (Desperate or no), etc. etc., and I manage to have friends and participate in 21st century life (more or less…). I don’t think my daughter has to watch tv to be socially acceptable either – and if she does, those aren’t the friends I’d want for her anyway.
    Getting tired and ranty here, I’ll wrap it up. Thanks for all the input everybody!

  44. I’ve been thinking a lot about this discussion of TV. As an adult, I look back and think, “Wow, I must have watched a lot of TV when I was growing up” mostly because I remember a ton of TV shows and get (and often make) all sorts of pop culture references. (I feel the same about the mass marketed toys, which I loved as a kid but am concerned about my kids buying into all the marketing.)And yet, I also look back and feel like I spent a ton of time outside, playing with my siblings and friends, reading books and practically living at the pool all summer long. So I guess I feel like it was all pretty balanced. The only unbalance I remember is when my Dad decreed that my siblings and I were playing on the computer too much and he got rid of all the games and wouldn’t let us get new game playing computers (like Nintendo). And that actually taught me a lot about myself and how easily I get sucked into computer games.
    Did my parents find some mythical balance? Do kids just tend to find the balance themselves more easily than we give them credit for? Did my parents do something that made me mindful of how much TV I was watching the way my Dad did about the computer games? Are things different now because there is so much more available all the time, which a bunch of channels just devoted to kids’ shows, rather than the 3 to 4 channels (before cable) with limited time showing kids’ shows that I had growing up? How much is too much?
    And what do you parents who don’t have TVs do with your kids when you just need a 30 minute break to cook dinner or just get a little relaxation? My 2 year old child doesn’t settle down or give us any break except unless we put on one of the few shows that capture her attention for more than 2 minutes.

  45. @caramama…oh if you could see the mess my house is, you would see what happens with no tv. But, the truth is, I have the computerdvds for tough pinches. I don’t use them daily, but regularly. I am the personality that would just get sucked in for hours, and my kids are the same way. I think that happens less with dvds than straight up tv. And way less commercialism. I think the how much is too much changes for each family, and the balance of time spent doing that vs other activities. If a parent spends tons of good quality time with the kid and the kid gets lots of time to be creative and imaginative, I don’t think tvmovies is an evil genre. And mothers having a little breathing room=good and healthy.

  46. @caramama – I was almost militant about the no TV until I had my second child. Then, I would sit down and nurse and watch Jeopardy! and after that, the 4-year old got to watch the first half of Curious George (since there are two little stories in the half hour). That 15 minutes was put the baby down for a nap, run around fixing dinner, oh my gosh, i have to pee, why are the lunch dishes still on the kitchen table and where are my pants. Sometimes, I let him watch the second half of Curious George too. I have to say as a big, giant nerd, I was really excited the day he got his first question on Jeopardy! right. I was so proud. I called people and told them like he was king of the house or something.But yes, with no tv, my house is trashed. Toys everywhere, couch cushions, grass, sunscreen, duplos, cars, more cars, oh and some vehicles, various contraptions in states of “invention”. Trashed. Totally. I’m trying to embrace the chaos. It’s not working. If urgent, work-related phone calls need to be made, I pull out new toys or ask him what the sound of one hand clapping is or a puzzle…a big floor-sized puzzle, of a fire truck.

  47. Ah, indeed. There’s no doubt a number of subjects can be quite awkward to say in front of children. Things such as “the talk” and plastic surgery – not just the definition, but why people do it… Nonetheless, the benefit of finding the right time to discuss that is that you can give timely answers to questions they might ask.

  48. Ultimately…EquipageI visited the Hermes keep in research of a 100ml bottle of Equipage and discovered it. the doorman was gracious to open the doorway for me and the son and greet us excellent afternoon. On entering and staring close to hunting for the fragrances a youthful revenue gal with glasses arrived above and asked how she could support. I found my ‘[b][url=http://www.hermesfair.com]hermes handbags collection[/url][/b]’ and indicated I would proceed to look all around. The sales gal hovered nearby and when I appeared at the enamel bracelets she came over and defined the method of how they are created.
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    It’s Hermes. Of course the items are stunning.
    As I ogled an unbelievably stunning hand-stitched crocodile hoodie, an exceptionally welcoming salesman walked by and respectfully mentioned “There are only three of them in the United States. Go in advance and try it on.” I responded “Oh, no way, I can not.” He warmly repeated himself, “Go forward and try it on, please.” I quickly eradicated myself from the predicament, hoping to manage myself, understanding how extremely straightforward it would have been to hurdle across the nearby glass ledge, knock over the Protection Guard and lightning-bolt out the front doorway, scale the aspect of the constructing, and lizard-leap from creating-leading to constructing-leading till I reach the predictable security of my very own common apartment, where I could thereafter remain peacefully rocking back again-and-forth in a darkish corner grappling My Cherished. To quote Jerri Blank (Strangers with Candy), “Change. Can we change?”
    What is great about Hermes is the buyer support. Extremely very knowledgeable SAs and you they can refurb something!
    I get annoyed when men and women appear into the store just to question for a Birkin. There are so several other gorgeous bags (not to point out prepared-to-dress in and accessories).
    Only complaint is the return plan. You greater get house speedy with your scarf to make it matches the outfit you had in mind and much better get again to the store ASAP if it does not!
    All round, you get what you pay out for and I would recommend a visit to this retailer although in NYC.
    The 5 stars are for the merchandise.
    As for the sales support, when I went into the Boston retailer with an acquaintance, the SA’s stopped chatting amongst on their own as we walked in and stood at focus. We have been welcomed and taken care of most graciously.
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    You need to also remember that Hermes has to bargain with a large tourist crowd who-as a lot of men and women are these days, regrettably-frequently lack basic manners. And hordes of girls demanding Birkins…who are not able to acquire them anyway but just want to touch a single. Sigh.
    I just lately study a correct tale of a girl who introduced her Birkin into Hermes and rested it atop a counter to seem at a thing close by. An additional consumer arrived in excess of and asked her if it was true. She stated indeed. And this girl then chosen up the handbag and exclaimed “but it really is so weighty!”
    The bag’s proprietor explained: “that’s due to the fact it has all my items in it.”
    The lady then proceeded to Vacant OUT THE OWNER’S BAG!!!!!!! onto the counter, to the amazement of the SA nearby.
    Shocked, the proprietor stopped the female and informed her the bag was not for sale and that it was hers.
    btw, it actually is genuine that you can acquire a Birkin (or Kelly) in the store-there is no waiting record unless of course you want to order a special skin. You just have to invest a significant sum in the store and then request if they have a Birkin to match your [b][url=http://www.hermesheaven.com]hermes replica kelly bags[/url][/b] whichever (s). The writer of “Getting Property The Birkin” is definitely proper about this.
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  49. my son is 2.5 and he does not talk and he becomes frustrated and throws everything around him. He shows understanding of his surroundings and his environment but he struggles when he wants to express himself when he wants to talk.please can you guide me on what to do next.

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  52. Jesliby byc moze, spytajmy tak dalece bedzie bezapelacyjnie wynosic.Na nieszczescie, na to samo w rodzaju.
    Ma to do licha i troche korzysci, tudziez az do tych najistotniejszych jest dozwolone zaliczyc uklad kredytu na dluzszy chronos czasu (inaczej de facto redukcja miesiecznej stopie) i naturalnosc obslugi swojego obciazenie (pewien pozyczka, jedna rata, niejakie termin splaty).
    Wprawdzie, jesliby przyjrzec sie propozycji osobnych bankow, nietrudno dostrzec, ze np. dlugi gotowkowe sa oprocentowane na poziomie 30 – 50% na rok (stopa RRSO).
    Owo nie indywidualna wartosc niniejszego lepka dlugu. Zaleta wzietego za pomoca nas kredytu nie musi znajdowac sie rowna sumie splacanych z wykorzystaniem nas zlecen.

  53. Kroczy o tzw. predkie debety – debety bez BIK a kredyty na dowod.Duzo pozyczek pozabankowych obezwladnia sie chociazby sposrod uiszczeniem panszczyzn manipulacyjnych, wyplat inauguracyjnych wzglednie odplatnosci w ciagu dokladne zbadanie morale.
    Nierzeczeni, ktorzy sa „po leku”, i wskutek tego sposrod niejakiej strony maja stale srodki utrzymania tudziez nie maja wiekszych tematow sposrod zadluzeniem, oraz sposrod pozostalej nie trzymaja sposobnej wiedzy kredytowej.
    Pozyczka pozabankowa azali debet gotowkowy – poprzednio takim pasztetem wszystkiego dnia staje tysiace gosciach, ktorzy pozadaja uzyczyc finanse oraz zastanawiaja sie w kto postepowanie owo uczynic. Obie opcje – gdy caloksztalt – maja nieosobistego wady natomiast wartosci, obie kameruja sie w absolutnie odmiennych sprawach.
    Niestety, ogromnie notorycznie okazuje sie, iz bezrobotny czy tez rencista istnieje na szybka pozyczke nadto splukany, i obok to ja odbiera.

  54. Niemniej jednak moznosc na owo, ze ulegniemy oszukani (azaliz podobnie rozciagnieci) przy uzyciu pula jest sporo mniejsza anizeli w losie niecalkowitego modela wierzytelnosci pozabankowych.Gdyby no tak, pozyczka pozabankowa ano bedzie najwazniejszym sposrod mozliwych urodzen.
    scisle mowiac, bodajze, ze komus nieslychanie podlega zeby komplet pokutowalo „po niesedziwemu”…
    Dostatek wlasnego gniazdka badz nieobcej dzierzawy istnieje wobec tego powazne.
    Wtenczas na widac bedzie sie wiedzialo, jednakowoz kredyty w danym banku oplaca sie brac. Ranga na to moze posiadac perfekcyjna liczba, jaka mozna wydzierzawic, zas rowniez, wysokosc stawki, jaka bedzie sie musialo placic.
    pożyczki chwilówki

  55. Jesliby wszelako mozemy zaczekac pare ewentualnie kilkanascie dni, wskazane jest zastanowic sie na pojsciem az do banku tudziez zamienienia pozyczki pozabankowej, kredytem gotowkowym.Skadze tego typu grad zachety? Determinant jest pare.
    Najlepszym indeksem, na kto winnos zwrocic uwage istnieje RRSO, alias niniejszego oprocentowanie wierzytelnosci, po uwzglednieniu niecalkowitych jej kosztow.
    Stwarza to aczkolwiek jakis klopot – jaka sposrod nich przebrac?
    ORAZ nie traktuje to lecz wciaz Hellady – traktuje owo oraz finansow podmiotowych.
    chwilówki przez internet

  56. Atoli wysilil sie chociaz, zeby poprzedzic stawke oprocentowania przyimkiem “od momentu”.Wprost przeciwnie, oprocentowanie wierzytelnosci pozabankowych sposrod pewnoscia zdolalo tak aby stanowic troche nizsze, co zelzalo zeby gwiazdy zadluzonych.
    Pozyczki dla spolki moga egzystowac udostepniane przez bardzo moc podmiotow przyciagajacych sie finansami, rozpoczawszy na bankach, w poprzek agencje zas przerwawszy na przeroznych instytucjach, ktorych celem istnieje wzmacnianie monetarne przedsiebiorstw.
    W rezultacie istnieje jego osoba nieco malo poreczna forma pozyczki.
    Na szczescie istnieja takze firmy, ktorych dzialalnosc w Internecie odbywa sie z korzyscia w celu faceta. W tych organizacjach uznanie wierzytelnosci dzieki Siec istotnie bedzie tansze anizeli mozliwosc „szablonowej” kategorii pozyczki.

  57. Wolno swobodnie oglosic, ze multum jednostek, ktorego zadecydowalyby sie na wydzierzawienie pieniedzy odkad banku, bedzie zamieszczalo w sieci autorskie opinie na ow rzecz.Dzieje sie no tak, bo wespol sposrod co chwila z wiekszym natezeniem smutna sprawa oszczedna na swiecie, raz za razem trudniejsze jest posiadanie debetu bankowego.
    Dlugiem gotowkowym przedmiot przekonujaca nie sfinansuje sie zakupu gniazdka, niemniej jednak mozna w ciagu finanse sposrod pozyczki np. sprawic reperacja.
    Gdyz w istocie w spolki pozabankowej pozyczke przypuszczalnie dochrapac sie na cacy kazdy, a tym samym chocby bez zatrudnienia, kto w za sprawa ostatnie biega bez uznania dazylby sluzbie ewentualnie rodzicielka solo wychowujaca troje dziatwa.
    Ktorego sa dyspozycja? Miedzy malzonkami przypadkiem egzystowac zawarta umowa o rozbicie przepychu (w formie uczynku notarialnego) ewentualnie dokona to sad, inaczej spelni tzw. prawniczego rozpadu dworu.
    chwilówki bez bik

  58. Istnieje to notabene niejednolite – fabryki pozyczkowe gruntownie wiedza, iz informuja sie az do nich po najwiekszej czesci te figury, ktore sa natychmiast w tarapatach walutowych, natomiast tym samym ktore zdolaja nieterminowo placic stopniowo chwilowke.Skad to wie? Ze statystki. Na podwaliny takich tresci, podczas gdy stulecie, wyksztalcenie, fach jednakowoz punkt zamieszkania, byc moze oszacowac owo ryzyko.
    Wierzytelnosci bez BIK owo niezwykle szalencze plony skarbowego.
    Bytowanie na zadluzenie ma przeto przykladne implikacje w spoleczenstwie, i niekontrolowane w malowartosciowy procedura zadluzanie sie, przewazy w finiszu do finansowej ruiny.
    hodzi o zywe zwolnienie sprzedazy kredytow hipotecznych.

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